Dry fire. Is a snap cap necessary?

[castnblast]

I am a shotgun shooter and always use them to let the hammers down. What about with nice 1911's like Kimber or Wilson?

[yoshidaex]

no

[tunakilla]

NO. In ugly 1911 like the Springfield or Colt you still don't need them

[outerlimits]

Not necessary. Also dangerous. What if that snap cap was actually a live round by mistake? Dry fired a million times-never broke a firing pin.

[G-ManBart]

No need for a 1911 or 2011.

[castnblast]

Thanks

[jaggy13]

It's good to use them for rimfire applications, the firing pin can actually contact the breach face.

I've been told you should use snapcaps on anything not designed to be dry fired, but as others have said,

many years and no pin replacements.

Now that I think about it, I've actually never heard of a broken firing pin from dry fire first hand...

Always a guy that knows of a guy...

[EkuJustice]

Not necessary. Also dangerous. What if that snap cap was actually a live round by mistake? Dry fired a million times-never broke a firing pin.

Actually had a guy do that around here at a skeet range with I believe it was a 28ga. Use to use old hulls for snap caps. Went into the club hous dropped 2 "snap caps" into the gun and set them both off into the floor(actually pulled the trigger twice)

[ima45dv8]

Not necessary. Also dangerous. What if that snap cap was actually a live round by mistake? Dry fired a million times-never broke a firing pin.

Actually had a guy do that around here at a skeet range with I believe it was a 28ga. Use to use old hulls for snap caps. Went into the club hous dropped 2 "snap caps" into the gun and set them both off into the floor(actually pulled the trigger twice)

Forrest's mama was right.

[Duane Thomas]

Nope, not necessary.

Having said that, I do like installing a PGS bright orange "plastic training cartridge" into the chamber at the beginning of the dry fire session. I'm not doing that for any cushioning effect (AAMOF the firing pin will swiftly dent the soft plastic to the point that any possible "cushion" effect would cease anyway), but I like having that very visible "plug" in the chamber just to make for-sure-for-sure that nothing else (like for instance a live round) can somehow migrate into the chamber during the dry fire session.

I take a knife and rip off the rim of the "round" to start so it doesn't spit out of the gun every time I cycle the slide to reset the trigger. Yes, this means I have to rod it out of the chamber at the end of the dry fire session. I'm okay with that, it's a part of my ritual that says to me, "The dry fire session is over." Also yes, I begin the session by taking all live ammo, loaded mags, etc. and putting them in a different room, so it might be argued the "plug" is unnecessary. This is definitely a belt 'n' suspenders approach to safety. I'm okay with that, too.

[G-ManBart]

Nope, not necessary.

Having said that, I do like installing a PGS bright orange "plastic training cartridge" into the chamber at the beginning of the dry fire session. I'm not doing that for any cushioning effect (AAMOF the firing pin will swiftly dent the soft plastic to the point that any possible "cushion" effect would cease anyway), but I like having that very visible "plug" in the chamber just to make for-sure-for-sure that nothing else (like for instance a live round) can somehow migrate into the chamber during the dry fire session.

I take a knife and rip off the rim of the "round" to start so it doesn't spit out of the gun every time I cycle the slide to reset the trigger. Yes, this means I have to rod it out of the chamber at the end of the dry fire session. I'm okay with that, it's a part of my ritual that says to me, "The dry fire session is over." Also yes, I begin the session by taking all live ammo, loaded mags, etc. and putting them in a different room, so it might be argued the "plug" is unnecessary. This is definitely a belt 'n' suspenders approach to safety. I'm okay with that, too.

Hard to argue with that logic...

[Bongo Boy]

No need for a 1911 or 2011.

Now G-Man, in the spirit of the playful ambiguity of the English language, did you mean "No need [to use a snapcap] for a 1911 or 2011", or did you mean there is "no need [for anyone to consider the use of a] 1911 or a 2011"?

[Bongo Boy]

Not necessary. Also dangerous. What if that snap cap was actually a live round by mistake?

I've never considered that to be problem, but I can now appreciate the issue you suggest. Combined with the general lack of utility of the snap cap for dry fire I can see how the decision can be made to avoid them altogether.

I do appreciate the benefit of the snap cap for live fire however. I know folks have scoffed at the dummy round practice thing, but I'm going to stick to the opinion that it has its utility in live fire training. Nothing to do with dry fire, though.

Now, when it comes to reload practice, I'd tend to go with the idea that a fresh mag should be loaded with good simulation. I use nickel plated brass (which I seldom shoot as live rounds), no primer and the primer pocket filled with silcone, no powder (duh) and the regular bullet. This still requires close attention to keeping fake ammo separate from live ammo, paying attention to the dry fire practice session, and following the four rules with particular attention to what you're aiming at.

Of course, none of this makes a difference for me. I still suck.

[R-Bros_JLR]

I just have to say that I was one that thought dry fire with no snap cap was a bad thing. This forum again proves to be a valuable tool as I am going to now practice a little more and just not worry about it!

[ima45dv8]

I do appreciate the benefit of the snap cap for live fire however. I know folks have scoffed at the dummy round practice thing, but I'm going to stick to the opinion that it has its utility in live fire training.

I don't think that's the right plan for this activity, especially considering high-speed sports like USPSA. I do understand the premise -- once the dummy round is encountered in a live fire string it will show a 'flinch' in the shooter's technique. Observers point to the extreme muzzle dip when the round doesn't ignite as evidence of a flinch. This generally isn't the case with folks who have been doing this a while. New shooters...maybe.

In seasoned USPSA/IPSC (and IDPA) competitors it's common for a an experienced shooter to develop an involuntary "push" related to recoil. It's instinctive and unconscious. I don't think that it can be learned as a specific exercise, but it does happen. It comes from many, many rounds downrange.

There are many examples of top shooters who's muzzles dip considerably when encountering a dud round during a stage. Is it a flinch? No. It's a learned muscular reaction that happens involuntarily when that round doesn't go off.

[Duane Thomas]

Of course, none of this makes a difference for me. I still suck.

Wow. Nothing like the power of positive self-talk, huh?

[Duane Thomas]

Is it a flinch? No. It's a learned muscular reaction that happens involuntarily when that round doesn't go off.

I think it's what happens when the gun does go off. It's just that since the gun didn't go off, and that automatic neuromuscular reaction is not being balanced out by muzzle flip, we can see it. As the old saying goes, "What's the difference between a flinch and 'timing the gun'?" Answer: probably about a thousandth of a second.

[G-ManBart]

No need for a 1911 or 2011.

Now G-Man, in the spirit of the playful ambiguity of the English language, did you mean "No need [to use a snapcap] for a 1911 or 2011", or did you mean there is "no need [for anyone to consider the use of a] 1911 or a 2011"?

I guess technically both would be true! I wouldn't be happy without 1911s and 2011s, but I could survive without them

[s_gorilla45]

I do appreciate the benefit of the snap cap for live fire however. I know folks have scoffed at the dummy round practice thing, but I'm going to stick to the opinion that it has its utility in live fire training.

I don't think that's the right plan for this activity, especially considering high-speed sports like USPSA. I do understand the premise -- once the dummy round is encountered in a live fire string it will show a 'flinch' in the shooter's technique. Observers point to the extreme muzzle dip when the round doesn't ignite as evidence of a flinch. This generally isn't the case with folks who have been doing this a while. New shooters...maybe.

In seasoned USPSA/IPSC (and IDPA) competitors it's common for a an experienced shooter to develop an involuntary "push" related to recoil. It's instinctive and unconscious. I don't think that it can be learned as a specific exercise, but it does happen. It comes from many, many rounds downrange.

There are many examples of top shooters who's muzzles dip considerably when encountering a dud round during a stage. Is it a flinch? No. It's a learned muscular reaction that happens involuntarily when that round doesn't go off.

I think you're spot on here. I don't use the ball and dummy drill to work on flinch unless I'm working with someone that I can see is flinching and won't accept that fact. For me, I use it to work on malfunction drills. Then again, I shoot a G35 so I don't have too many of those.

[waxman]

One thing to consider. Maybe this was a fluke but it is worth mentioning. All of my dummy rounds I use for dryfire mag changes and such do not have any primers in them. I few nights ago, I decided to work on empty table starts in my dryfiring. While doing the starts, I chambered a dummy round and dropped the hammer. I proceded to do this a bunch of times. Well when I cleared the pistol, my firing pin was stuck. I am not sure if it was stuck in the flash hole of the dummy round, or the firing pin hole in the breech face. Either way when trying to get it back to its normal position, I bent it.Thankfully I had a spare fp. Needless to say, All of my dummy rounds now have spent primers in them.

[ima45dv8]

As the old saying goes, "What's the difference between a flinch and 'timing the gun'?" Answer: probably about a thousandth of a second.

Yep.

And maybe a few thousand rounds.

[JAFO]

For me, I use it to work on malfunction drills.

I like snap caps for this and for reloading practice. I do need to make up some unloaded dummy rounds to approximate the weight of a loaded mag, though.

For dry firing, I used to use them but got tired of having to pick them up when I invariably ejected one while bumping the slide for the next shot. Now I just stick a foam earplug between the hammer and FP on my 226. A lot of folks say you don't need anything for dryfiring, but I've seen several posts on another forum from people with broken roll pins or firing pin position pins who have dryfired extensively with no form of buffer. Maybe that's due to the design, but the earplug is simple, doesn't get in the way, and gives me a little piece of mind.

[Sarge]

Something else to consider here. When you go to a match you better stop by an unloading/clearing area before you do anything else just in case. Having that dummy in the gun constitutes what? Anyone?.....Anyone?

[castnblast]

Not necessary. Also dangerous. What if that snap cap was actually a live round by mistake? Dry fired a million times-never broke a firing pin.

Actually had a guy do that around here at a skeet range with I believe it was a 28ga. Use to use old hulls for snap caps. Went into the club hous dropped 2 "snap caps" into the gun and set them both off into the floor(actually pulled the trigger twice)

Darwinism at its best.

[Erik S.]

Something else to consider here. When you go to a match you better stop by an unloading/clearing area before you do anything else just in case. Having that dummy in the gun constitutes what? Anyone?.....Anyone?

Yep! 10.5.12, p.47 of USPSA rule book. DISQUAL!

Back on the subject of this thread, though. I have only broken 1 firing pin in my life and it was while shooting a live round out of my cheap-o New England Firearms 20ga shotgun, not any of the thousands of dry fires I've subjected my guns to. I know the NEF is cheap, but it has sentimental value since it was the first gun that was actually MINE. Got it for Christmas from my parents when I was 12 and can still bag my limit of dove along with the guys pumping 3 shots per bird through their 870's.