Just set up 40, still have some Glock Bulge

[Mike in CT]

I know there have been volumes written about this but wanted share my experience.

I have loaded thousands of 9mm on my Hornady LNL without incident.....once I got it dialed in.

So tonight I swapped over to 40S&W and set up my Hornady resizing die touching the shell plate plus a 1/4 turn but I still cannot get cases to gauge at that last 1/8 inch next to the base. I had even bought a Lee FCD but I fail to see how it sizes any farther down the case. I tried it in several different adjustments but aside from putting a tighter crimp on the case, no further sizing took place (did I get an old version or something?

So I ordered a UGW undersize die hoping that will give me that last 1/8 inch of bulge.

Do you think that will do it, or is there another option aside from the RCBS push through thing.

Thanks

Mike

[EkuJustice]

Lee bulge buster and carbide crimp die(gutted. It does the same thing as the RCBS for cheaper. Just mount it on a single stage press and you are good to go

[Sarge]

I know there have been volumes written about this but wanted share my experience.

I have loaded thousands of 9mm on my Hornady LNL without incident.....once I got it dialed in.

So tonight I swapped over to 40S&W and set up my Hornady resizing die touching the shell plate plus a 1/4 turn but I still cannot get cases to gauge at that last 1/8 inch next to the base. I had even bought a Lee FCD but I fail to see how it sizes any farther down the case. I tried it in several different adjustments but aside from putting a tighter crimp on the case, no further sizing took place (did I get an old version or something?

So I ordered a UGW undersize die hoping that will give me that last 1/8 inch of bulge.

Do you think that will do it, or is there another option aside from the RCBS push through thing.

Thanks

Mike

The U-Die should take care of it. The Push through dies seem great but it is just another step you have to go through.

See how the U-Die works first.

[98sr20ve]

I know there have been volumes written about this but wanted share my experience.

I have loaded thousands of 9mm on my Hornady LNL without incident.....once I got it dialed in.

So tonight I swapped over to 40S&W and set up my Hornady resizing die touching the shell plate plus a 1/4 turn but I still cannot get cases to gauge at that last 1/8 inch next to the base. I had even bought a Lee FCD but I fail to see how it sizes any farther down the case. I tried it in several different adjustments but aside from putting a tighter crimp on the case, no further sizing took place (did I get an old version or something?

So I ordered a UGW undersize die hoping that will give me that last 1/8 inch of bulge.

Do you think that will do it, or is there another option aside from the RCBS push through thing.

Thanks

Mike

I know this sounds basic but have you sized a case and then checked it in the casegauge? Also, measure the O.D. of that case as well. Hornady makes a nice sizer. But it is possible it's on the large side.

[EkuJustice]

I just use the best sizer out there, the barrel

[G-ManBart]

So tonight I swapped over to 40S&W and set up my Hornady resizing die touching the shell plate plus a 1/4 turn but I still cannot get cases to gauge at that last 1/8 inch next to the base. I had even bought a Lee FCD but I fail to see how it sizes any farther down the case. I tried it in several different adjustments but aside from putting a tighter crimp on the case, no further sizing took place (did I get an old version or something?

So I ordered a UGW undersize die hoping that will give me that last 1/8 inch of bulge.

Do you think that will do it, or is there another option aside from the RCBS push through thing.

No, you didn't get an old FCD...they won't help what you're trying to fix (and I don't think they help at anything, but lots of folks disagree with that).

The U-die should solve the problem. It still won't completely get a very small section just forward of the extractor groove, but it shouldn't be enough to cause a problem. The thickness of the shell plate/holder and the slight taper in the mouth of the die are the cause of that last little bit, and why the push through dies, like the Redding GRx do a bit better job. R,

[Dan Hefta]

I have been reloading for three years now and last year was the first year that I started reloading .40... I get all of my brass from my best friend, he is a State Trooper and an Instructor so he gets all of the once fired .40 brass...They are all shooting Glocks... I have never had a "Glock bulged" case yet and I have reloaded at least 3000... is it beacuse it's once fired? Just courious.

[photog]

This while issue really is gun specific.

Getting the 40 case completely resized, including the rim, is important to certain guns, like my Tanfoglio Limited.

Some designs have no issues with over sized bases, some are completely intolerant of anything outside of factory spec.

Also certain mags prefer certain specs. Your case gauge may or may not give an accurate "test" of what your gun needs, they only let you know when the cartridge is WAY to big. (my Limited will not function properly all the time even though my rounds will pass a gauge test and a barrel test, as feeding is a function of more than just getting a cartridge in the barrel.)

If you are having nosedive issues, and tuning the magazine doesn't work or if you can't get the full capacity in your magazines the next step is to see if factory spec ammo will function properly in these regards. If factory new ammo works and your reloads do not, then you're gonna need to more fully resize than the "regular" sizing die will do.

First get a EGW (Lee) U-die. They are supposed to be a couple thousandths smaller and size lower than the standard die. The reason to do this first is it may cure your problem and this can be integrated into your progressive press. If the U-die does not cure the problem, then a push through system is your next best option. Either a redding GR-X or a hacksawed carbide standard die will work. I have not tried the bulge buster, but since it uses the FCD, I would bet it does NOT size the cases enough to cure the problems some have. the push through systems are a pain as they require a beefy single stage press, but the extra work is worth it if you are having issues. The more expensive route is the CasePro, which I have no experience with, as my hacksawed standard lee die push through system works.

[Mike in CT]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I have just sized several cases and gauged them and it is always that last 1/8th of an inch near the base that is not sizing. I can actually see where there is slight discoloration on the case where the sizing stops.

I will let you know how it works when the EGW die comes in, it shipped out today.

I will also check these 'bulged' cases in my barrel to see if they fit the actual chamber, forgot to do that last night.

Mike

[98sr20ve]

I have not tried the bulge buster, but since it uses the FCD, I would bet it does NOT size the cases enough to cure the problems some have. the push through systems are a pain as they require a beefy single stage press, but the extra work is worth it if you are having issues. The more expensive route is the CasePro, which I have no experience with, as my hacksawed standard lee die push through system works.

FCD would work perfectly. It sizes thing to Sammi spec perfectly. It's normally sized exactly .003" smaller then sammi spec and with brass spring back sizes right at sammi. I am not a fan of the FCD as it's not a good "sizer" because it's sized much larger then a regular sizing die. But thats how it's designed to do so thats not really meant as a critique.

[photog]

I have not tried the bulge buster, but since it uses the FCD, I would bet it does NOT size the cases enough to cure the problems some have. the push through systems are a pain as they require a beefy single stage press, but the extra work is worth it if you are having issues. The more expensive route is the CasePro, which I have no experience with, as my hacksawed standard lee die push through system works.

FCD would work perfectly. It sizes thing to Sammi spec perfectly. It's normally sized exactly .003" smaller then sammi spec and with brass spring back sizes right at sammi. I am not a fan of the FCD as it's not a good "sizer" because it's sized much larger then a regular sizing die. But thats how it's designed to do so thats not really meant as a critique.

That's good to know. I never tried pushing through the FCD. When I run my finished cartridges through the Lee FCD they rarely would have any resistance, as the U-Die I use is pretty undersized. Since I rarely would feel any further sizing going on in the FCD I ASSUMED that it would not cure the problems some have with bulged cases.

In my experience its the very last bit of the case and the rim that need to get sized and doesn't get sized even by my U-die.

[98sr20ve]

I have not tried the bulge buster, but since it uses the FCD, I would bet it does NOT size the cases enough to cure the problems some have. the push through systems are a pain as they require a beefy single stage press, but the extra work is worth it if you are having issues. The more expensive route is the CasePro, which I have no experience with, as my hacksawed standard lee die push through system works.

FCD would work perfectly. It sizes thing to Sammi spec perfectly. It's normally sized exactly .003" smaller then sammi spec and with brass spring back sizes right at sammi. I am not a fan of the FCD as it's not a good "sizer" because it's sized much larger then a regular sizing die. But thats how it's designed to do so thats not really meant as a critique.

That's good to know. I never tried pushing through the FCD. When I run my finished cartridges through the Lee FCD they rarely would have any resistance, as the U-Die I use is pretty undersized. Since I rarely would feel any further sizing going on in the FCD I ASSUMED that it would not cure the problems some have with bulged cases.

In my experience its the very last bit of the case and the rim that need to get sized and doesn't get sized even by my U-die.

I know this is going to be a suprise but the U-Die and the FCD are IDENTICAL in design (how the carbide fits in the die body). The U-Die is sized MUCH smaller then the FCD carbide ring. So if they are both setup the same distance from the shellplate the FCD will do nothing. Said another way the U-Die and the FCD have the carbide ring in the same spot, FCD is sized much larger then the U-Die so it won't size anything that has been sized by a U-Die. Basically, the U-die as about .005" smaller then a FCD carbide ring.

[MarkCO]

Also certain mags prefer certain specs. Your case gauge may or may not give an accurate "test" of what your gun needs, they only let you know when the cartridge is WAY to big. If you are having nosedive issues, and tuning the magazine doesn't work or if you can't get the full capacity in your magazines the next step is to see if factory spec ammo will function properly in these regards. If factory new ammo works and your reloads do not, then you're gonna need to more fully resize than the "regular" sizing die will do.

YES photog!

And this even holds true for Gen1 Glocks. I think there are a LOT of reliability issues that can be attributed to bulges in loaded ammo inhibiting proper funtion in the magazine, but everyone always brushes that possibility aside.

[noylj]

I consider the "U" type dies to be a solution to the wrong problem. These dies are only needed if you have a real tight "match" chamber and the normal resizing die won't work for you. I don't know how many of you actually have very tight "match" chambers.

I have never had any problem with a sizing die not sizing a case down enough, since I have never had a custom chambered barrel.

I have hit a couple of .40 and 9x19 cases that, when sized with a Hornady New Dimension die, ended up with a very small and thin raised ridge of brass at the web of the case that seemed to match the feedramp exposure. I solved this by NOT sizing the cases as low. If you are not able to size a case low enough, get a Hornady New Dimension TiN sizing die.

Since I did not like the raised ridge, I got the Lee Bulge Buster. I can only use it for .40 and .45 right now, but it does a great job. I am thinking of seeing if Lee will make a 9mm Makarov FCD so I can use the bulge buster for 9x19 and 9x21.

[wide45]

When a properly adjusted U die does not completely resize the case, it is a sure sign that the base of the brass has been expanded. It was never designed to do that, and means it was overloaded. Factory loads will nearly always resize properly.

It is not a gun problem if your loads result in expanded case heads. It's foolish and unnecessary. You need to rethink your load.

Edited December 24, 2010 by wide45

[photog]

When a properly adjusted U die does not completely resize the case, it is a sure sign that the base of the brass has been expanded. It was never designed to do that, and means it was overloaded. Factory loads will nearly always resize properly.

It is not a gun problem if your loads result in expanded case heads. It's foolish and unnecessary. You need to rethink your load.

I'll disagree with this statement. 40 is a higher pressure load and distorts the webbing and base enough to affect reloading even with FACTORY once fired loads. I do most of my reloads with RP nickle cases from the PD, I know its only once fired and it still has issues in my gun if I don't use a push through resize. Like I stated above its a problem only some people with some guns will have. If you don't have issues, great!, But some of us do and we have to go further to fix the problem.

[photog]

So I did a little testing and measurement. These test cases are all once fired RP nickle plated brass. I load them with a 180gr Montana Gold bullet, 5gr American Select and a WinSPP. I load long to 1.176" (vs max spec at 1.135") Becasue they run better in my Limited.

Loaded rounds when the case was pushed through a Lee FCD:

Base Diameters .4215, .4220, .4215, .4215

Loaded Rounds when pushed through a hacksawed Lee 40S&W die:

Base Diameters .4185, .4190, .4185, .4185

Notes: The FCD die push through would only allow me to load to 19 rounds in my Hennings 141 mags (10mm body eaa factory). THe Hacked 40 die allows me to load to 21 rounds in the SAME MAG.

Inside diameters of:

Lee Factory Crimp die carbide ring 0.4205"

Lee 40 Sizing die carbide ring 0.416"

EGW (modified lee) 40 U-Die Carbide ring 0.4120"

LE WIlson case gauge in 40S&W 0.4220

These measurements taken with cheapie calipers, but they were repeatable so I put at least a little confidence in the numbers. all the dies and gauges are well used.

My Conclusions for my setup :

1. if I don't use a push through system I get nosedives and only get 17 max in a 21 round mag.

2. If I use the FCD as a push through die I get fewer nosedives and get 19 max in a 21 round mag.

3. If I use a regular sizing die as a push through I get buttery smooth feeding and no nosedives and I get 21 rounds in the mag.

Again, if you don't have this problem then this is useless info, but I thought I'd share my findings.

[John Wayne]

Good thread and info Photo G. I like the idea of hacksawing the die.

[98sr20ve]

So I did a little testing and measurement. These test cases are all once fired RP nickle plated brass. I load them with a 180gr Montana Gold bullet, 5gr American Select and a WinSPP. I load long to 1.176" (vs max spec at 1.135") Becasue they run better in my Limited.

Loaded rounds when the case was pushed through a Lee FCD:

Base Diameters .4215, .4220, .4215, .4215

Loaded Rounds when pushed through a hacksawed Lee 40S&W die:

Base Diameters .4185, .4190, .4185, .4185

Notes: The FCD die push through would only allow me to load to 19 rounds in my Hennings 141 mags (10mm body eaa factory). THe Hacked 40 die allows me to load to 21 rounds in the SAME MAG.

Inside diameters of:

Lee Factory Crimp die carbide ring 0.4205"

Lee 40 Sizing die carbide ring 0.416"

EGW (modified lee) 40 U-Die Carbide ring 0.4120"

LE WIlson case gauge in 40S&W 0.4220

These measurements taken with cheapie calipers, but they were repeatable so I put at least a little confidence in the numbers. all the dies and gauges are well used.

My Conclusions for my setup :

1. if I don't use a push through system I get nosedives and only get 17 max in a 21 round mag.

2. If I use the FCD as a push through die I get fewer nosedives and get 19 max in a 21 round mag.

3. If I use a regular sizing die as a push through I get buttery smooth feeding and no nosedives and I get 21 rounds in the mag.

Again, if you don't have this problem then this is useless info, but I thought I'd share my findings.

Your probably working that brass pretty good going through the Lee Sizing die. It's sounds like it's worth it either way for you and your setup.

[flack jacket]

Works great, Less than $65 at Midway. I ordered with 40 s&W .. 45 ACP is available too..

Edited December 26, 2010 by flack jacket

[photog]

Yes I am working the brass pretty hard. I had to add a cheater bar (extension handle) to my RCBS rockchuker in order to get the brass through the sizing die. I threaded on a sour cream container on top of the die so it catches the brass on its upward journey. Lube helps, but the brass still pops through the die, the press bends the 3/4" plywood and the 2x6 its bolted to! But you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Glockman1000]

I consider the "U" type dies to be a solution to the wrong problem. These dies are only needed if you have a real tight "match" chamber and the normal resizing die won't work for you. I don't know how many of you actually have very tight "match" chambers.

I have never had any problem with a sizing die not sizing a case down enough, since I have never had a custom chambered barrel.

I have hit a couple of .40 and 9x19 cases that, when sized with a Hornady New Dimension die, ended up with a very small and thin raised ridge of brass at the web of the case that seemed to match the feedramp exposure. I solved this by NOT sizing the cases as low. If you are not able to size a case low enough, get a Hornady New Dimension TiN sizing die.

Since I did not like the raised ridge, I got the Lee Bulge Buster. I can only use it for .40 and .45 right now, but it does a great job. I am thinking of seeing if Lee will make a 9mm Makarov FCD so I can use the bulge buster for 9x19 and 9x21.

I have a Lee 9mm Makarov FCD die that I had them ground and polish to .390 and use it to push size all my 9mm pickup brass. It works great and doesn't cost as much as a Casepro or Casemaster Jr. I have a push ram that is not the Lee type but a homemade one that pushes the cases through rim first so they don't buckle on the way through. The .40 & .45 I have been doing for over 15 years, the 9mm just a few months now. Works great.

My .40 & .45 push through dies are regular sizing dies that I heated up with a torch, tapped out the carbide rings, and turned the die body inside diameter on a lathe to further seat the ring farther up in to the die. By doing this you use very little effort to push a shell through since all the leverage is at the bottom of the press stroke. I will post some pics of the dies and the rams I use if anyone is interested. My buddy who asked me to size his .45 brass says his single stack feels like it feeds smoother than before. I also have an easier time loading, unloading magazines for my Para P-14 since the rims don't catch each other.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Glockman1000

[98sr20ve]

I just don't understand how a push through die in 9mm would do anything other then size the rim. It's a tappered case. The rim is much larger then the actual case right at the base of the cavity.

[Duke Nukem]

I use a Hornday LNL and just a plain Lee 4 die set and have no bulge problems. I shoot all the range brass I can find and most of it is from Glocks.

I know it seems to easy.

[Glockman1000]

I just don't understand how a push through die in 9mm would do anything other then size the rim. It's a tappered case. The rim is much larger then the actual case right at the base of the cavity.

Actually not all 9mm cases from different manufacturers are the same in terms of the rim diameter. The largest I have come across are Federal cases that normally come around .392 around the rim. Most are under the base taper of the case so only the base of the shell is sized. I do sort my brass by make to keep any variation to a minimum. My push sizer die is not .385 but .390. If anything the rims of my 9mm brass come out uniformed and have been tried in an EAA Witness, Dawson built STI pistols, Glocks, S&W M&P Compact, and Ruger P89. No problems with the brass or the function of the pistols they were tried in.

One of our club members has a Casemaster, Jr. and his brass comes out being straight walled and with rims that look double the size they should be. After looking up the Magma site, the die they use is .385 basically a 9mm Makarov die. Regarding the taper of the case, all that winds up getting sized is the last portion of the case that most size dies can't reach and as the Bulge Buster and GR-X kits recommend, you should size the cases as normal when loading. The end result is that it works great for me.