How long did it take you to move up a class

[98006]

Been shooting for about 3 years I've been stuck at SS for a while,which seems to be a long time. How long did it take you to move up?

[SeaTact]

SS is pretty good, but I can understand wanting to move up. How long have you been at that level? What gun(s) have you been shooting in IDPA and what division(s)?

[Steve Koski]

How many matches per year are you shooting?

How many practice sessions are you getting outside of matches? (Live fire)

How often do you dry fire?

Have you watched videos of yourself to find weak spots?

[wurm]

Shot SS at my first classifier after shooting unclassified for the first five months, next year same time I shot Expert. Half a year later I won Expert at a state match and got bumped to Master. I shoot matches pretty much every weekend during the normal Michigan season as well as live fire practice usually once during the week. Mix in dry fire practice at least three days a week. I've actually been slacking the last two months or so. I just needed a cool off though I'm back on track now. I'm going to be shooting some more USPSA in the near future and see what I can do for classification there.

Moving up takes a fair amount of work. You have to decide that you really want to do it and figure out what exactly you are lacking and work on it. Practice sessions with specific goals and you have to have a way to measure your progress. Steve asked some good questions. I found video taping my matches and practice sessions was a very enlightening experience. I also shoot with a friend who I have fun competing against. He and I have a friendly rivalry going but we also really help each other out with our training. I just have to keep an eye on him if he is the one scoring me at a match

Edited November 28, 2010 by wurm

[98006]

How many matches per year are you shooting?

How many practice sessions are you getting outside of matches? (Live fire)

How often do you dry fire?

Have you watched videos of yourself to find weak spots?

I shoot at least 2 times month. Never practice live fire IDPA style other than going to the range to shoot paper. no drawing allowed there.

I dry fire quite a bit.

I have watched video of myself and I seem to be lacking in the speed of draw and accuracy. i am very cautious on the draw as I don't wish to throw a stray round down

The best I have classified is 122.35,just a couple of sec short of expert in SSP

[DWFAN]

how many points down on the classifier?

Points down kill in IDPA..

The draw is important, but i wouldnt think that would keep somone from expert...

[Steve Koski]

That's a good chunk of match experience.

Draw speed:

If your draws are too cautious, that can add up. Shave .8 seconds off of each draw = a lot of time over the course of a classifier, or a 12 "draw" match. You should be prepping the trigger before your sights are lined up, and finishing the shot off as soon as you get an acceptable sight picture. Do you know your typical draw times (say at 7 yards, no concealment)?

You can practice drawing and breaking quick shots to a large extent with dry fire, but you may be having trouble conecting it to live fire. Can you shoot some drills after a match for an hour with another experienced club member at the range? Draw and fire one round, maybe 30 times (with a timer of course). A high SS/almost EX shooter should be able to get consistent -0 hits at 7 yards in the 1.5-1.8 second range.

Accuracy:

At your indoor range, can you "cloverleaf" 5 rounds slow fire at 10 yards? Say 1.5" center to center?

What kind of gun are you shooting? Are you changing guns a lot?

Just thinking out loud...

Edited November 28, 2010 by Steve Koski

[lugnut]

What kind of gun are you shooting? Are you changing guns a lot?

I've made Master in a couple divisions now and am currently working on SSR Master. This is a biggie that Steve mentioned. I shot for a couple years kinda just shooting for fun. I practiced but I didn't stay with one gun- I shot my Sig for a bit, then an M&P, and 1911. Eventually found I like a Glock and stuck with it for a year. quickly went to Ex then Master.

[waktasz]

The difference between SS and EX is accuracy IMO. I finally made Expert on Saturday after missing it by 1 second last time. I went slower but only dropped 24 points.

Now that I'm looking at the times for Master I think it's too easy. I'm still a ways away from being that, but if I do break that 98 second barrier, I still feel like I'm very very far away from being an actual "master" of anything.

[MrBorland]

I started shooting competitively early this past year at local ICORE matches, then started IDPA soon afterward. In IDPA, I went from unclassified/novice to SS, stayed there for 3 months, then went to EX 3 months ago. Looking at my splits and match results, I think I'm knocking on the door of Master.

I've only shot my revolver in competition (a S&W 686 in SSR), and early on chose to stay there until I felt I got a good foundation laid. I try to dry fire daily. I live-fire practice once a week, and go with a plan. I'll typically shoot 100-150 rounds of CF and 200-ish .22LR during these sessions. I include pure accuracy work in these sessions, shooting for groups, or participating in an informal on-line postal target match. I'll shoot about 3 matches a month. And I've gotten some good instruction. I also read everything I can and watch match videos on youtube, and cruise sites like this for good info.

What I've found over the course of all this is that I do best at matches when I practice (both dry- and live-fire) skill sets and get them hardwired, then simply apply exactly what I've practiced and know I can do. Push harder than this at a match, and I'm wasting all my hard-earned practice. Squander my practice sessions, and I'm wasting my time at a match.

I've also discovered (as have many others here), that the process, rather than the goal, is where your mental energy should go. Want to shoot a good group? Forget the target. Be mindful of a good sight picture and trigger control, and the target takes care of itself. At practice, and at a match, be mindful of "seeing more" and hitting where you see. Evaluate your match results based on how well you think you did these things. Your match result and classification will takes care of itself.

On accuracy - IMHO, you shouldn't routinely be giving up more than 10% of your raw time to PDs, FTNs, and NTs. If you are, you're shooting beyond your ability. I've spent plenty of time there, and it was when I finally accepted this that things started to go better.

Tom

[Strick]

It took me about a year to go from MM to MA in ESP and CDP and about 1.5 years to make MA in SSP.

Most of what has been said already is good info. Once you get past SS it is all about the little things also, are you efficient with your movements. Just as important as knowing your draw time and having that fast is shaving time on splits and transitions. Those 2 things add up quickly since you make a lot of transitions and second shots during a COF and match.

The important thing is not trying to go faster at a match, that is the kiss of death. Try to find some time to practice and push the speed there, work on seeing the sights faster and snapping your eyes to the next target.

Making MA is about knowing where you are loosing time, being honest about your faults, and then being able to work on them. It is not simply about just going faster.

[Strick]

I started shooting competitively early this past year at local ICORE matches, then started IDPA soon afterward. In IDPA, I went from unclassified/novice to SS, stayed there for 3 months, then went to EX 3 months ago. Looking at my splits and match results, I think I'm knocking on the door of Master.

I've only shot my revolver in competition (a S&W 686 in SSR), and early on chose to stay there until I felt I got a good foundation laid. I try to dry fire daily. I live-fire practice once a week, and go with a plan. I'll typically shoot 100-150 rounds of CF and 200-ish .22LR during these sessions. I include pure accuracy work in these sessions, shooting for groups, or participating in an informal on-line postal target match. I'll shoot about 3 matches a month. And I've gotten some good instruction. I also read everything I can and watch match videos on youtube, and cruise sites like this for good info.

What I've found over the course of all this is that I do best at matches when I practice (both dry- and live-fire) skill sets and get them hardwired, then simply apply exactly what I've practiced and know I can do. Push harder than this at a match, and I'm wasting all my hard-earned practice. Squander my practice sessions, and I'm wasting my time at a match.

I've also discovered (as have many others here), that the process, rather than the goal, is where your mental energy should go. Want to shoot a good group? Forget the target. Be mindful of a good sight picture and trigger control, and the target takes care of itself. At practice, and at a match, be mindful of "seeing more" and hitting where you see. Evaluate your match results based on how well you think you did these things. Your match result and classification will takes care of itself.

On accuracy - IMHO, you shouldn't routinely be giving up more than 10% of your raw time to PDs, FTNs, and NTs. If you are, you're shooting beyond your ability. I've spent plenty of time there, and it was when I finally accepted this that things started to go better.

Tom

Excellent post.

[98006]

I must say that my points down,especially the stage with the long shots are not too good. would static shooting at that distance improve it? I do get all shot on target though.

[solaritx]

It took me about a year to go from MM to MA in ESP and CDP and about 1.5 years to make MA in SSP.

Most of what has been said already is good info. Once you get past SS it is all about the little things also, are you efficient with your movements. Just as important as knowing your draw time and having that fast is shaving time on splits and transitions. Those 2 things add up quickly since you make a lot of transitions and second shots during a COF and match.

The important thing is not trying to go faster at a match, that is the kiss of death. Try to find some time to practice and push the speed there, work on seeing the sights faster and snapping your eyes to the next target.

Making MA is about knowing where you are loosing time, being honest about your faults, and then being able to work on them. It is not simply about just going faster.

That and a good sensei.....little grasshopper <g>

Sometimes it's a view from outside of ones own vision that can enlighten one to the flaw in one's performance required to achive one's true ability.

Garry

Edited November 29, 2010 by solaritx

[astephenson]

The difference between SS and EX is accuracy IMO. I finally made Expert on Saturday after missing it by 1 second last time. I went slower but only dropped 24 points.

Now that I'm looking at the times for Master I think it's too easy. I'm still a ways away from being that, but if I do break that 98 second barrier, I still feel like I'm very very far away from being an actual "master" of anything.

I agree with this.

I had been stuck at SS since 2008. I finally decided to start getting serious within the past year or so and got bumped to EX in SSP and ESP at majors this past summer/fall.

My turning point was when I realized that there's alot of time to be lost in points down. I didn't start "getting faster" (according to match results) until I started slowing down to make sure I had the right amount of sight picture for every shot. Of course this also meant that I had to have trigger control down pat as well.

[Trail3]

I have been shooting SS in ESP for 8 years! LOL! My last classifer I shot it in Master time.............

but I was 69 points down. LOL! For me it is the 3 part of the classifer that is my down fall.

I only shoot IDPA once a month and 2 USPSA matches, C shooter in Limited. I do shoot a XD9 Tac in IDPA and a Para 16/40 in USPSA. Just have to get my minor 40 loads worked out for IDPA with the Para. At our local IDPA club matches I am usually in the top 15 shooters out of 85-100. I have been as high as 3rd overall. It depends on my mood, weather, and the squad I'm shooting with. I try to squad up with guys that are good, we push each other. Shooting the Postal match next week so I can gauge myself on a national level. For me it is getting that balance point between speed and accuracy.

It's not that you shoot good, it's that you look good shooting! LOL!

I really just want to have a good time and be able to shoot better than 100% of the bad guys that are shooting at me.

[hankfan79]

Points down and finding out where you are loosing time MOVEMENT wise. There is alot of time to be gained there.

Movement includes target transition, running instead of walking, and when and when not to HUG cover.

[donnyglock]

I made master in SSP in about a year. A little longer in ESP. The two keys for me (besides practice and a ton of dry fire) was useing my sights as my speedometer and being real efficient with my movements. Wasting time getting in and out of positions is a real killer. I practice something every day. It might be reloads it might be draws or just mentally going through stages. Bottom line I improved because I wanted to and was willing to put in the work to do so. I'm vain and like winning. Keep practicing and sometimes it helps to take a class from a pro. I took a four day class from Strader and it was money well spent.

[MrBorland]

I must say that my points down,especially the stage with the long shots are not too good. would static shooting at that distance improve it?

If you're having trouble consistently hitting the down zero while taking slow, static & deliberate shots, I'd suggest doing exactly this until you can. And even if you can, there's always room to work on marksmanship fundamentals, IMO.

I do get all shot on target though.

The target is the down zero zone (and vise versa). Your target is an 8" circle or the head. The rest of the cardboard simply functions to keep it suspended. You must see it (rather than just a big piece of cardboard) in your sights when you take your shot. When the mind accepts this, shooting is more controlled and PDs go down.

Tom

[Brewski]

I started shooting competitively early this past year at local ICORE matches, then started IDPA soon afterward. In IDPA, I went from unclassified/novice to SS, stayed there for 3 months, then went to EX 3 months ago. Looking at my splits and match results, I think I'm knocking on the door of Master.

I've only shot my revolver in competition (a S&W 686 in SSR), and early on chose to stay there until I felt I got a good foundation laid. I try to dry fire daily. I live-fire practice once a week, and go with a plan. I'll typically shoot 100-150 rounds of CF and 200-ish .22LR during these sessions. I include pure accuracy work in these sessions, shooting for groups, or participating in an informal on-line postal target match. I'll shoot about 3 matches a month. And I've gotten some good instruction. I also read everything I can and watch match videos on youtube, and cruise sites like this for good info.

What I've found over the course of all this is that I do best at matches when I practice (both dry- and live-fire) skill sets and get them hardwired, then simply apply exactly what I've practiced and know I can do. Push harder than this at a match, and I'm wasting all my hard-earned practice. Squander my practice sessions, and I'm wasting my time at a match.

I've also discovered (as have many others here), that the process, rather than the goal, is where your mental energy should go. Want to shoot a good group? Forget the target. Be mindful of a good sight picture and trigger control, and the target takes care of itself. At practice, and at a match, be mindful of "seeing more" and hitting where you see. Evaluate your match results based on how well you think you did these things. Your match result and classification will takes care of itself.

On accuracy - IMHO, you shouldn't routinely be giving up more than 10% of your raw time to PDs, FTNs, and NTs. If you are, you're shooting beyond your ability. I've spent plenty of time there, and it was when I finally accepted this that things started to go better.

Tom

And that, my friends, is why Tom is kicking my ass every match.

Will

[GForceLizard]

Excellent posts. I wanted the bump from SSP SS to EX. I worked daily on my dryfire and got out to practice live fire once a week. Because I wanted it, I worked for it and with a bit of luck I made the match bump to expert.

Practice the press out, Drill of the week Jan 14 2008 http://pistol-training.com/archives/108 This helped me.

[jmorris]

I rotated around the different divisions bumping class at sanctioned matches. I spent around 6 years making it to 5 gun master. Would have been a lot faster without the wood but where is the fun in that.

[lugnut]

I rotated around the different divisions bumping class at sanctioned matches. I spent around 6 years making it to 5 gun master. Would have been a lot faster without the wood but where is the fun in that.

How did you manage to do all that without get bumped at all via the classifiers?

EDIT: I got match bump to ESP MA, classifier bump to SSP MA. In SSR, where I'm shooting now... I don't recall many matches where a match bump is even feasible.

Edited December 1, 2010 by lugnut

[RickB]

I shot Sharpshooter on my second classifier attempt, in 2000. I shot the classifier two or three (or four) times a year for eight years, before shooting an Expert score, even though I'd gotten a match bump to Expert a couple of years earlier. At the same time my IDPA classification was stuck on SS, my USPSA classification jumped about 25%.

[xcelr8n]

I don't shoot many classifiers. I've been shooting IDPA for 3-4 years. I spent my first couple of seasons getting my 5-gun Sharpshooter. Now that I have that, I wanted to make Expert this year. I shot a classifier this summer and was able to shoot a 104. I'm well into striking distance for SSP Master and hope to reach it next year.

My improvement has been slow since I don't practice. No live. No dry. Nothing. I shoot 1-2 IDPA matches a month and 3-5 USPSA matches a month. So, I get trigger time. But I really need to practice to make Master, especially in CDP.

Edited December 6, 2010 by xcelr8n