All-Gator Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 First match, first stage was a disaster: Simply would not feed. Shot the rest of the match with perfectly functioning 20-round mags, but did not like reloading with the Limited guys. Yeah, I know, should have tried it before the match. The (OEM) 26-round mag spring was found to have the same number of coils as the 20-rounders and simply seem to have been stretched out. The spring is just too far weak to funtion. Bad show on the part of CZ. But worse is that replacements are not available from CZ-USA, CZ-Custom...or even after market folks (e.g., Wolf.) I'm a newbie to CZ and don't know where to turn to find appropriate replacements. Is there anything (EAA, Grams, etc.) to which I can turn?? Any help will be greatly appreciated. A-G BTW, otherwise I love the pistol. It's flat and seems to have softer recoil...perhaps because it's heavier than the STI/SVAs I have. It's the first factory Open pistol I have ever purchased and is entirely equal to my custom guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 picture of the mag would be nice and dimension with cliper. if you have an sti spring does it go it the mag? or does it snag on detent or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Hon Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Grams might be able to help you there...... It's pretty much two TS type mags welded together isn't it? I'm wanting to say he said something about having a 170mm spring/follower kit for CZ's out or in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Call CZ.. the CM i shot with the big stick was flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 Bevin had the answers. Good man! A-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 TS has a bigger fatter mag body than SP01 that Grams made followers and springs for Cz. +1 call CZ or send the mag to Cz to have them replace it for FREE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Bevin had the answers. Good man! A-G Who is Bevin? I need to find out about those big sticks too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Bevin Grams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Bevin had the answers. Good man! A-G Who is Bevin? I need to find out about those big sticks too... http://www.gramsengineering.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 CZ-USA has no replacements either for spring or a complete mag...neither does CZ Custom. They are on "back order" and they have no idea when they will be available. But, again, the factory springs for the TS/Czechmate have the same number of coils for both the 20-rounder and the 26-rounder. Bevin Grams is offering a 13-coil spring/follower for the TS/Czechmate. He cautioned that his follower will not lock back the slide...which is no biggie at all. In passing and FYI, Grams indicated that he recommended an OAL of 1.117...+/- .0005. A-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pevadijk Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Maybe Tanfoglio springs work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Maybe we should refuse to buy a product from a manufacturer that wont support said product, going to third parties is only enabling these manufacturers to do this. If you paid wally world for a $30 toaster then got home and only half of it worked would you pay an electrician to repair it ? Heck no you wouldnt, you'd be headed back to wally World in a heartbeat for a replacement or refund,,, Then why do we keep doing this for $2000 plus guns, Id be on the phone with CZ until I had a new magazine en route. All that is necessary for bad QC to triumph is for shooters to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 Joe, I understand your point and cetainly wouldn't quible. However, before you think Im complaining about CZ's QC, the pistol arrived fully functional and reliable; appeared to be handfitted with a slide to frame fit that also appeared to be hand lapped; was test fired at the factory (with a 1 1/4 inch group); and, was actually sighted in spot-on at 25 meters. Obviously they spent the necessary time and effort in providing a match ready pistol out of the box. However, they did blow it by not developing/providing a specific spring for the big stick...as opposed to using what appears to be the same spring for their shorter mag. As I said, "CZ's bad!" But after 50 years of pistol competition (Bullseye, Action, USPSA), I guess I've just gotten used to having to "tweak" new pistols before they are really where they need to be. Again, no arguement. Just saying. A-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 The magazine is part of the pistol, the magazine was brand new, it didnt work, so the pistol did not arrive fully functional and reliable. Things happen but I would expect CZ to stand behind their product and make it right, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rack&roll Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 I just bought a 26 rounder for my CZ Shadow Custom from Ghost Prod. and it works flawlessly in my gun. I just use it for fun or practice. Any factory can produce a lemon. Why they won't make it right is a mystery, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 I'm running a custom made TS open division of my own design. I use a welded long stick. The magazine carries 25 rounds and works flawlessly. The magazine length is 160mm and I use the original mag spring. The idea of using a 160mm mag and 25 rounds is the fact that it will be more reliable than a maximum length mag. Your magazine is probably defect and should be replaced. One intresting question: what happens when the gun jam's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share Posted November 29, 2010 The first five rounds jam into the bottom of the feed ramp; that is, the front of the cartridge does not lift high enough fast enough. I've tried to shorten the OAL (as low as 1.072 to no effect.) I've tried different bullets with different ogives...also to no effect. I don't want to pry open the front of the lips of the mag...if I have to return it I don't want a hassle about voiding the warrenty. NOTE: After the first five rounds the magazine functions flawlessly. BTW, The internal of the weld is not rough and does not seem to be a problem. I have ordered a new spring/follower from Grams. Here's hoping! A-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 (edited) Several things have occured to end this saga. First, CZ-Custom now has factory replacement springs in stock and they are 13-coil springs. Apparantly they are specific to TS/CM bigsticks. Why mine had a stretched out 20-round spring is just not explained or known. Second, the Grams follower/spring did not solve the problem...but did add 1 1/2 rounds to the tube capacity: It is now a 27-round mag (see the other thread.) What did solve the problem was using Montana Gold 124 CMJ's with an OAL of 1.113. The sharp ogive seem to be the answer. Whatever, it sure didn't like the JHP's. I probably will shorten the OAL somewhat before I work up the load. A-G Edited December 2, 2010 by All-Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhut Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Several things have occured to end this saga. First, CZ-Custom now has factory replacement springs in stock and they are 13-coil springs. Apparantly they are specific to TS/CM bigsticks. Why mine had a stretched out 20-round spring is just not explained or known. Second, the Grams follower/spring did not solve the problem...but did add 1 1/2 rounds to the tube capacity: It is now a 27-round mag (see the other thread.) What did solve the problem was using Montana Gold 124 CMJ's with an OAL of 1.113. The sharp ogive seem to be the answer. Whatever, it sure didn't like the JHP's. I probably will shorten the OAL somewhat before I work up the load. A-G My wife runs her CZ75B-SA with the 26rd factory mags at the local matches and has never had a problem with them. She has three of them, nary a problem. She runs Montana Gold 124JHPs at 1.075 We went through hell with the 124JHPs at first because the CZ wanted them so short, but it's all good now and her gun is running 100% with all factory 16/19/26rd magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Several things have occured to end this saga. First, CZ-Custom now has factory replacement springs in stock and they are 13-coil springs. Apparantly they are specific to TS/CM bigsticks. Why mine had a stretched out 20-round spring is just not explained or known. Second, the Grams follower/spring did not solve the problem...but did add 1 1/2 rounds to the tube capacity: It is now a 27-round mag (see the other thread.) What did solve the problem was using Montana Gold 124 CMJ's with an OAL of 1.113. The sharp ogive seem to be the answer. Whatever, it sure didn't like the JHP's. I probably will shorten the OAL somewhat before I work up the load. A-G CZ's are not the only 9 Majors that like RN bullets. All 3 of my 9 Majors run 100% w/RN aka CMJ's versus JHP's at @99.5%. I want you to make me sorry I didn't buy that CheckMate, I looked very seriously at the one you bought but then went ahead and had a new STI 9 major built. So get the thing working and go out and win a match or two and turn the shooting world upside down! I like CZ's shoot STI, love Boudevar (Czek for Budwiser) and Goulash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 (edited) Several things have occured to end this saga. First, CZ-Custom now has factory replacement springs in stock and they are 13-coil springs. Apparantly they are specific to TS/CM bigsticks. Why mine had a stretched out 20-round spring is just not explained or known. Second, the Grams follower/spring did not solve the problem...but did add 1 1/2 rounds to the tube capacity: It is now a 27-round mag (see the other thread.) What did solve the problem was using Montana Gold 124 CMJ's with an OAL of 1.113. The sharp ogive seem to be the answer. Whatever, it sure didn't like the JHP's. I probably will shorten the OAL somewhat before I work up the load. A-G I can't get JHPs or most FPs to work in my 9mm TS either. It mostly works if I dont put more than 15 rounds in the mags, but if I fill them up they'll get stuck on the ramp. I tried a bunch of different bullets and lengths and then just gave up and went to either Zero 147 FMJs or Montana Gold 124 FMJs. Edited December 9, 2010 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) I really do not like shooting a bullet with an exposed lead base. That is one prime reason that I've choosen to shoot JHP's for years...there are other reasons as well. I had some soft-point round nose bullets that did not solve the problem...the soft lead point went into the bottom of the ramp, dug in, and jammed just like the JHP's. The Montana Gold 124g CMJ bullets have a point covered by the hard jacket material and a rather severe ogive. They are the only bullets that will feed reliably. NOTE: As I said before, this is a problem with the first four rounds in a fully loaded mag. It functions perfectly with 22 rounds..JHP's, soft points, whatever at a wide range of OAL's. The gunsmith at CZ-USA suggested that I go ahead and slowly spread the front of the lips until the cartrige comes up higher/sooner...he said it wouldn't void my warranty. But I really don't understand why it works fine with a partially loaded mag with the lips set to factory specs but not when fully loaded. I'm afraid to adjust for the first four and then find the others come up too fast. The CMJ's are shooting accurately and have a shielded base...so I won't more "fix it" if it's finally working!! A-G Edited December 10, 2010 by All-Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 9mm is tapered, the back is larger than the front, the more rounds you have between the follower and feed lips the higher or more pressure there will be on the back and the lower and less relative pressure you will have on the front. Now how that helps or not you get a cross between a rhino and a elephant,,,, "Elephino" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 Yep...knew and understood that: The taper is to ease extraction. But, I've shot 9x23's for years and years in my SVA/STI bigstick mags without any problems. I've encountered no problems when I changed to 9x19 Majors with spacers. There seems to be something about the CZ TS/CM bigstick's engineering/configuration that isn't quite working (at least for me.) I understand that the CZ75 bigsticks do not have a problem...it's just the TS model. I've shot Zero JHP's for years and years...and I hate to change to another bullet. But what works...works. Therefore, Montana Gold has a new customer. A-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) FYI One more "aha" experience: Went to the range and suddenly the CMJ's were somewhat less than 100% reliable. Oh, hell!! Well, I happened to look in the bottom witness hole of a fully loaded bigstick. I could see that the coils were packed completely against each other and were slightly kinked to the side. It came to me that the kink might be catching against the bottom of the raised guides which end slightly above the witness hole (and the kink) and not allowing the spring to apply upward pressure. I placed a CZ-Custom long mag extension on the mag...which removed the kink. VOILA!! The mag functions 100%...even with the JHP's. Ok, now, I think I know the problem. But the added extension makes the mag illegal by some silly millimeters. I'm thinking that extending the raised guides to the bottom of the mag will be the cure. I'm not sure what I'm biting off here having to mill a pattern mold, heat the mag, and pound away! I may just shoot with a slightly illegal mag for awhile. Any comments/suggestions?? A-G Edited December 10, 2010 by All-Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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