Annual Classifier to shoot state match?

[p7fl]

I was informed that in order to shoot the 2011 Florida State Match I have to have shot a classifier in the prior year. Supposedly this is a rule from AK HQ.

The last time I shot classifiers were in ESP in 2002 and CDP in 2005 and there is no way in hell that I can speed up to Master from Expert.

Can anyone, and I am not trashing IDPA, give me the logic for requiring an annual classifier.

TIA

jon

[DWFAN]

You dont have to speed up to anything, you just have to shoot the classifier. If you shoot better than what your current class is, you get bumped, if not, you stay where you are.

Its probably an attempt to keep people from sandbagging. Of course someone can always throw a shot or miss a reload if they really think sandbaging is in their best interest.

[beltjones]

My issue with this rule is that despite the fact that there are about 4 IDPA clubs within driving distance of me, there is a grand total of 2 classifiers per year. A couple of the clubs have a policy that says that classifiers are held when there is sufficient demand, but then of course they never hold one. Another club has a classifier every year, but they limit it to like 6 shooters, and it always fills up fast. The last one is good about hosting one per year, but it's all too common to have a conflict on that one day that a classifier is held.

[sperman]

Another reason for this rule may be to keep people who dont' shoot the sport regularly from only showing up at big IDPA matches. Just a guess.

[Steve J]

My issue with this rule is that despite the fact that there are about 4 IDPA clubs within driving distance of me, there is a grand total of 2 classifiers per year. A couple of the clubs have a policy that says that classifiers are held when there is sufficient demand, but then of course they never hold one. Another club has a classifier every year, but they limit it to like 6 shooters, and it always fills up fast. The last one is good about hosting one per year, but it's all too common to have a conflict on that one day that a classifier is held.

Cross Timbers alone has more than 2 classifiers in a 6 month period. If you're shooting with a club in the DFW area that has access to an outdoor range like Cross Timbers does, all you have to do is ask and one will be scheduled.

[The_Vigilante]

Here at our club in El Paso an annual classifier is held. However, if someone needs to shoot a classifer any of the certified SO's would be more than happy to set up an appt with the person needing the classifier. Was reading the rule book and it indicated it was the responsibility of the shooter-member to shoot classifier once a year.

[GOF]

The Rules say one thing, the clubs that hold Classifiers do them when they can, and the Rules don't really mean a lot at the local level. If you can't make a Classifier because of scheduling, or if no Classifiers are held within your area (common) I have not seen that to be a problem. I've shot the last two FL state matches and no one looked at my classification card. Same for 2010 GA State. And the 2007 and 2008 Nationals. If there is no Classifier in your area within that time period, just tell the MD. The guys at FL State are pretty cool.

GOF

[kaiserb]

My issue with this rule is that despite the fact that there are about 4 IDPA clubs within driving distance of me, there is a grand total of 2 classifiers per year. A couple of the clubs have a policy that says that classifiers are held when there is sufficient demand, but then of course they never hold one. Another club has a classifier every year, but they limit it to like 6 shooters, and it always fills up fast. The last one is good about hosting one per year, but it's all too common to have a conflict on that one day that a classifier is held.

Cross Timbers alone has more than 2 classifiers in a 6 month period. If you're shooting with a club in the DFW area that has access to an outdoor range like Cross Timbers does, all you have to do is ask and one will be scheduled.

We (Cross Timbers) actually have one classifier each quarter officially and several other opportunities to classify as many of the SOs schedule ad hoc classifiers in the weeks and months prior to major matches. .

[p7fl]

just tell the MD. The guys at FL State are pretty cool.

GOF

Agree with you the guys from WAC are a pleasure and no one brought up a Classifier last year.

Dan and I had a nice chat while he DQ'd me for not having a working grip safety on my Colt :-)

Still just looking for a hard firm logic for requiring that we annually re-shoot (in my humble opinion) a long boring stage.

TIA

jon

[GOF]

Jon,

The logic for the annual Classifier is that as shooters gain more experience in IDPA their skill levels -- and scores-- will increase, and they should shoot against shooters in a Class that truly relfects their skill level. I have no problem with that philiosophy, and have seen dramatic improvement with shooters that I SO at two different clubs. For a SS who is shooting like a MA to be competing in the SS class is not fair to all the other legistimate SS. The drawback is that Classifiers are not equally available to all shooters. In some cases, a club may only hold one or two a year, and if business, life, or just "stuff in general" prohibits a shooter from being there on that EXACT day, then I wouldn't tar & feather a dues paying member for not shooting an annual Classifier. As for your DQ for a non-functioning 1911 grip safety... don't feel bad. Doug Koenig got DQed (caught?) for the same thing at a IDPA National match. You're in good company. Stuff happens.

GOF

[GmanCdp]

no need to look at a card..the MD can go online and check a shooters status...

[Steve J]

no need to look at a card..the MD can go online and check a shooters status...

The card is still the only official record of your IDPA classification. There is an official requirement by rule for clubs to maintain shooters' classification cards. There is no such requirement for clubs to input data to the online data base.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Steve J

[Steve J]

My issue with this rule is that despite the fact that there are about 4 IDPA clubs within driving distance of me, there is a grand total of 2 classifiers per year. A couple of the clubs have a policy that says that classifiers are held when there is sufficient demand, but then of course they never hold one. Another club has a classifier every year, but they limit it to like 6 shooters, and it always fills up fast. The last one is good about hosting one per year, but it's all too common to have a conflict on that one day that a classifier is held.

Cross Timbers alone has more than 2 classifiers in a 6 month period. If you're shooting with a club in the DFW area that has access to an outdoor range like Cross Timbers does, all you have to do is ask and one will be scheduled.

I knew I was close. I was pointing out that the DFW area is far more classifier rich than BeltJones thinks.

Down here in Central Texas we ( CCPC ) have a classifier scheduled on every 5th Saturday and Temple occasionally has one too. I haven't had to run one after work for someone in a long time.

[Jane]

just tell the MD. The guys at FL State are pretty cool.

GOF

Agree with you the guys from WAC are a pleasure and no one brought up a Classifier last year.

Dan and I had a nice chat while he DQ'd me for not having a working grip safety on my Colt :-)

Still just looking for a hard firm logic for requiring that we annually re-shoot (in my humble opinion) a long boring stage.

TIA

jon

Yeah. Cool. Guys running a sanctioned match aren't requiring you to follow the rules.

Way cool :cheers:

[GOF]

Jane,

If no Classifier matches are held within your reasonable (within 1.5 hours one way) driving area within a given year... or if just one is held and for business/family/general life reasons you can't get there to shoot it.... does that mean you just have to crawl into a hole and die and are no longer allowed to compete in IDPA... even if your membership is paid up well in advance? What does one do if there is no reasonable opportunity to shoot the Classifier?

GOF

[DWFAN]

I shot 6 sanctioned matches last year including nationals and didnt have to show my card once. So i dont think that its an isolated issue.

[jar]

The card is still the only official record of your IDPA classification. There is an official requirement by rule for clubs to maintain shooters' classification cards. There is no such requirement for clubs to input data to the online data base.

I've never touched my classification card in the 3 years I've been an IDPA member. I've never seen another shooter's classification card, and I'm an SO at two clubs (including a regional match) and an MD at one of them. I'm pretty sure I'm far from alone.

[Steve J]

I shot 6 sanctioned matches last year including nationals and didnt have to show my card once. So i dont think that its an isolated issue.

That's because IDPA is very much an "honor system" sport, but that goes both ways. The MD is using the honor system. He is assuming that when you signed up for the match you were being honest and following the rules, that your classification was correct and that you had satisfied the rule requirement to shoot a classifier every year. The same goes for sanctioned matches that don't chrono or perform equipment checks. They are going on good faith that IDPA shooters don't cheat.

[Steve J]

The card is still the only official record of your IDPA classification. There is an official requirement by rule for clubs to maintain shooters' classification cards. There is no such requirement for clubs to input data to the online data base.

I've never touched my classification card in the 3 years I've been an IDPA member. I've never seen another shooter's classification card, and I'm an SO at two clubs (including a regional match) and an MD at one of them. I'm pretty sure I'm far from alone.

I am my club's MD and SOI. I faithfully sign cards immediately following each classifier after we've scored the sheets. All the clubs in Central Texas do the same. That is the way it is supposed to be done.

Sanctioned match MDs are also supposed to sign classification cards for match bumps. For example, I just received a new classification card in the mail from Robert Ray signed by Joyce Wilson for my match bump to CDP Master at Nationals. Regional and State matches sign them after the match. That's the way it's done at Texas State, Oklahoma State (Badlands) and Louisiana State. That's the way it's supposed to be done.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Steve J

[DWFAN]

I shot 6 sanctioned matches last year including nationals and didnt have to show my card once. So i dont think that its an isolated issue.

That's because IDPA is very much an "honor system" sport, but that goes both ways. The MD is using the honor system. He is assuming that when you signed up for the match you were being honest and following the rules, that your classification was correct and that you had satisfied the rule requirement to shoot a classifier every year. The same goes for sanctioned matches that don't chrono or perform equipment checks. They are going on good faith that IDPA shooters don't cheat.

Thats probably true (and I only entered as I was qualified), but I for one would be up for an online classification database and lookup, that clubs were REQUIRED to update after a classifier and or sanctioned match that had class bumps.

[Duane Thomas]

Just before the latest Washington State IDPA Championships I got a friendly email reminding me that records didn't show me as having shot a classifier within the previous year. I shot SSP Master so that was kind of a moot point, but it does indicate that some clubs are indeed paying attention.

[astephenson]

Does a match bump count as a classifier for that division?

[Strick]

I am my club's MD and SOI. I faithfully sign cards immediately following each classifier after we've scored the sheets. All the clubs in Central Texas do the same. That is the way it is supposed to be done.

Sanctioned match MDs are also supposed to sign classification cards for match bumps. For example, I just received a new classification card in the mail from Robert Ray signed by Joyce Wilson for my match bump to CDP Master at Nationals. Regional and State matches sign them after the match. That's the way it's done at Texas State, Oklahoma State (Badlands) and Louisiana State. That's the way it's supposed to be done.

They should also be required to submit the bumps to HQ so they show there. It is not that hard for them to do, all it takes is a few minutes of time.

Like you I got my new card reflecting my bump to MA in SSP but since the TX state bump to MA was never uploaded my new card is not accurate. Now I have to make sure I carry both cards.

[Steve J]

Does a match bump count as a classifier for that division?

Yes, but it has to be recorded. You're good for 12 months after a match bump.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Steve J

[Steve J]

I am my club's MD and SOI. I faithfully sign cards immediately following each classifier after we've scored the sheets. All the clubs in Central Texas do the same. That is the way it is supposed to be done.

Sanctioned match MDs are also supposed to sign classification cards for match bumps. For example, I just received a new classification card in the mail from Robert Ray signed by Joyce Wilson for my match bump to CDP Master at Nationals. Regional and State matches sign them after the match. That's the way it's done at Texas State, Oklahoma State (Badlands) and Louisiana State. That's the way it's supposed to be done.

They should also be required to submit the bumps to HQ so they show there. It is not that hard for them to do, all it takes is a few minutes of time.

Like you I got my new card reflecting my bump to MA in SSP but since the TX state bump to MA was never uploaded my new card is not accurate. Now I have to make sure I carry both cards.

That's a shame. It should have be uploaded. Only the club hosting the sanctioned match can upload a match bump on line. Your home club could still add it to the new card, but I know that's not the same.