Kyle O Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Aight. Gonna be .40 (thanks for the help guys ) After some serious searching/reading, 6 inch "fat free" seems to be the way to go here. If not, tell me why. Options I know I want - 2011, .40 cal. - Long, Flat, Light, crisp, trigger. - fiber adj sights - 100% reliable Now, Options I'm not sure about. - changeable breechface? Seems I saw something about that, what are they available on? Do I really need this? My SS is showing some signs of erosion, and has me concerned about a high round count in a future gun. - Grip, aluminum vs. polymer. I really like the way a "sandpaper tape" grip feels better than a polymer, so I'm thinking aluminum. I'm just wondering Pro's/Cons to each. Weight issues? Your feelings? - 9mm top end, can anyone offer this, or just certain smiths? - Balance options. Seems if I go 6 inch, I'm hearing you want a bushing barrel, with a short dust cover. Is this a universal thought, or would I want to consider a bull barrel/short dust cover, or bushing/long dust cover, or Do you think it best to beef the end of the gun out all the way bull bbl/full length/tungston rod etc...? - Finish. Ion bond, blued, brushed stainless....opinions? Durability? Something I don't know? - Cost. Well, it's not an open gun, so cost is no factor if there is something here that I'm not thinking about, by all means fill me in. Also, I've seen some good looking offerings from Cheely, Freedom GW, and Brazos Custom. Anyone else I should be shopping around with? I want to make the best informed decision, so let me have it all please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) Talk to Benny Hill ( www.triangleshootingsports.com) and he will build you a reliable 6 in fat free gun. I have one and I am very happy with it. Mine runs like a scalded ape. Edited October 17, 2010 by bulm540 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent C Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 SVI now makes a pretty sweet "fat free" (short dust cover, bushing barrel, lightened slide) 6in. I handled one with a steel grip and the balance of the gun was amazing. You can get the sandpaper grip tape feel without having to worry about the grip cracking every 3000 rounds. They have the interchangeable breach face. They can fit a 9mm barrel, breach face, extractor, and ejector so you can run both calibers with out having an buy an entire different top end (or if you prefer they can make a fit a second top end). SV makes a pretty cool adj fiber sight too. If you can't tell I am pretty impressed with their products and would highly recommend going that route. I am planning on ordering one of their 6in guns in the very near future. You will be able to get everything you want done right from one place. The only down side is there is a bit of a wait involved. At the very least I would recommend calling SV and talking with Brandon so he can give you more info about it. Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I shot one of SV's 6" guns last week and it was very soft/flat shooting with 170 PF ammo. I liked it enough to change my current build from a Sight Tracker to a 6" gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 talk to Benny Hill, he is known for his "fat free" 6in guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I had Virgil Tripp build mine. The work they do is nearly flawless. I have about 2000 rounds thru it and its 100% reliable from the very first round - not a single failure of any sort. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112900& Its my 2nd custom from him and won't be my last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Matt MacLearn built one of my 6" guns and Jim Anglin built the other. They are both nice handling Limited guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
818-DVC Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Have you shot a 6" gun yet? Have you ever shot a full dustcover 5"? They feel/handle pretty different from eachother. Also no need to compare prices of of a limited gun or open. I have a limited gun that costs more than my $4000 open gun. It is all personal preference that I don't think you can guage until your really good or have at least experimented with all the different platforms over a significant amount of shooting each. I'm not a very good shooter, but I have found what I like and don't like. I have shot guns/loads that I was so dissapointed with that I thought would be my e-tcket... I switch back n forth a lot. That's the fun of having all the flavors. When your bored with 1, go shoot a different gun or division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 Have you shot a 6" gun yet? Have you ever shot a full dustcover 5"? They feel/handle pretty different from eachother. Also no need to compare prices of of a limited gun or open. I have a limited gun that costs more than my $4000 open gun. It is all personal preference that I don't think you can guage until your really good or have at least experimented with all the different platforms over a significant amount of shooting each. I'm not a very good shooter, but I have found what I like and don't like. I have shot guns/loads that I was so dissapointed with that I thought would be my e-tcket... I switch back n forth a lot. That's the fun of having all the flavors. When your bored with 1, go shoot a different gun or division. I've shot a G34, I have a G17, so I can feel the difference in those. I have shot the snot out of a 1911 .45acp single stack, the last few years. I don't have a classification (seems I shoot 3 or 4 matches then switch divisons), but comparing scores it seems I am a solid B class shooter. I'm productioned to death. Gonna put that up for now. Single Stack, not so much do I want to put it down, but start to practice things like movement more instead of reload, reload, reload, reload, done. Limited seems the next logical step for me. I'm just ready to try it out, and I don't want my equipment to hold me down. I'm sure this won't be my last gun, but it will be my next one. So, just gathering info, I'll do my own comparisons later. Until then, I just got to take you guys word on it. So, by all means keep it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) I think you need a Swaro Z6i instead. On a serious note though, I don't like 6" guns. It's all personal preference. Get your hands on one and shoot it before building one. Edited October 18, 2010 by Pro2AInPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 I think you need a Swaro Z6i instead. On a serious note though, I don't like 6" guns. It's all personal preference. Get your hands on one and shoot it before building one. If you'd accept a payment plan, I might could swing the scope! Now, please tell me WHY you don't like 6 inchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) I can tell you this... with the right load and springs, there's no reason to go back to the 5" gun, for me. The 6" is just as fast and more accurate. It weighs LESS, balances in the same place under the trigger guard and transfers less felt recoil. They are both built by the same guy, so virtually everything is identical feel wise with the grip, fire controls, safeties, sights... the only difference is the frame width and the top end. Even the trigger pull feels the same. I can't think of a single reason to shoot the 5".... Edited October 18, 2010 by Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I think you need a Swaro Z6i instead. On a serious note though, I don't like 6" guns. It's all personal preference. Get your hands on one and shoot it before building one. If you'd accept a payment plan, I might could swing the scope! Now, please tell me WHY you don't like 6 inchers? The ones I shot just didn't feel right/point right for me. Maybe they just weren't set up right. Who knows. I love my 5" guns though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbeauxdawg Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I'm personally not a fan of six inch guns either. Granted i have yet to shoot one but i have held a few just to look down the sights and feel the weight. A lot of people like to go to the six inch for accuracy reasons and they are somewhat lighter. if you can notice the 3-4 ounce difference in weight then good for you but i can't so that doesn't bother me. As far as accuracy goes i argue this all the time at local matches that uspsa to me is not an accuracy sport. it is a combination of speed and "somewhat" accuracy as in A and C zone hits preferably. when i hear people say they want a six inch for the longer sight radius (if you were thinking this) so they can be more accurate i kind of laugh thinking when do we need to be that accurate. i shoot matches usually once a week year round and about one match a year will push targets to fifty yards which you still don't NEED a six inch but i can help a LITTLE. one other thing is that i feel the six inch is sort of a fad uspsa is going through just because it is new and neat looking. i don't think there is anything wrong with them, i just feel that you don't get a big advantage from them. i used a 5" semi custom brazos for the last 4 years ( switched to open recently for the hell of it ) and that gun felt perfect from the first time i shot it to last month. however if u do decide on a six inch bobby at freedom gunworks builds beautiful guns. just my opinion lilB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 This same discussion has been going on a long time. A historical search will yield the same discussion 7 years ago: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6193 A 5" vs 6" conversation from last year: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92819 My thread from the same discussion this year: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109444 Pretty much 100% agreement that a 6" gun that's built right and balanced right is an advantage. Not finding too many people that are running them that went back. Heck TJ and TGO just too 2nd and 3rd at Nats with 6" guns. They can use whatever they want.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 To answer a couple of your questions, SVI is the only company offering a slide with an interchangeable breachface. It's not necessary, and if you're seeing erosion on the breachface of your SS gun, it's mostly like tired brass with worn primer pockets. Before you settle on the aluminum grip, do a search on them....it seems like nearly everybody using one has had them crack. STI is replacing them, but that's too much trouble for me. I'm sure they'll get it sorted out, but only getting a couple of thousand rounds per grip isn't good enough for me. Any good smith should be able to build a 9mm top end to go with the gun. As far as balance, I'm sure a few folks have gone with a bull barrel, but the most popular choice is a standard barrel and a bushing to keep the gun from being nose heavy. I like all my guns to balance at around the face of the trigger, but that's just me. Tell your smith how you'd like it to balance and they should be able to use various components to achieve that. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 As Gart said... SV is who makes the slides with the interchangeable breech face. Some see that as adding in an extra (possible) malfunction point. And, some of that has been reported here over the years. One advantage they offer is they can be replaced if worn out (but, we don't often hear many folks talking about wearing out their breech face). Another benefit is that you can change the calibers and keep the one slide (which is already fit to your gun). So, you can run 9mm and 40 on the same frame and same slide...with just a barrel fit. (way better than fitting another barrel AND slide, I'd think). But, outside of SV...not too many smiths can get the parts. I am not sure on those aluminum grips... Seems the STI's have had some issues (search the forum), but I don't know that the SV have had issues as well? I'd be inclined to go with the standard (better proven) plastic grip. Benny Hill (Triangle Shooting Sports) was the gunsmith that popularized the term "fat free". A lot of folks go with just a blue or parkerized finish (or none) to start with. They see how they like the gun...shooting it for 6 months or more to see if they want to make any changes. Then, once they are sure they have what they like, they send it off for a final finish (hard chrome or Ion-bond). If you want a light 6in gun, but a Glock 24. Seriously, there is a trend toward lighter guns now. It wasn't here when I started the sport. Everybody wanted more weight in the gun to dampen recoil. Light guns are more lively in the hand and really take an advanced shooter to get any benefit out of them. I have run a number of shooters at many a major match. Of all the 6in Limited guns I have seen, I have only seen a total of 2 shooters that worked well with their guns. The other 6in. shooters that I have watched were hampered by the guns (and they don't realize it). My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I have run a number of shooters at many a major match. Of all the 6in Limited guns I have seen, I have only seen a total of 2 shooters that worked well with their guns. The other 6in. shooters that I have watched were hampered by the guns (and they don't realize it). My two cents. Gart...that's a new one! Even the Super Squad types were hampered by the guns? I haven't heard a breakdown on this year's Nationals, but I recall quite a few of the top guys running 6" guns last year. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronhonda Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 The 6inch guns IMHO seem like a fad to me. Too many people jumping on the bandwagon with the lastest and greatest thing since slice bread. But it all boils down to preference. I you feel better with the 6inch, go with it. Just make sure you are making the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 The 6inch guns IMHO seem like a fad to me. Too many people jumping on the bandwagon with the lastest and greatest thing since slice bread. But it all boils down to preference. I you feel better with the 6inch, go with it. Just make sure you are making the right decision. A fad? latest and greatest? As Seth mentioned above, the same discussion was here 7 years ago...kinda hard to be a fad after all that time, even if it isn't for everybody. For the record, I don't have a 6" Limited gun, but the next one I have built will be. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronhonda Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 The 6inch guns IMHO seem like a fad to me. Too many people jumping on the bandwagon with the lastest and greatest thing since slice bread. But it all boils down to preference. I you feel better with the 6inch, go with it. Just make sure you are making the right decision. A fad? latest and greatest? As Seth mentioned above, the same discussion was here 7 years ago...kinda hard to be a fad after all that time, even if it isn't for everybody. For the record, I don't have a 6" Limited gun, but the next one I have built will be. R, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I have run a number of shooters at many a major match. Of all the 6in Limited guns I have seen, I have only seen a total of 2 shooters that worked well with their guns. The other 6in. shooters that I have watched were hampered by the guns (and they don't realize it). My two cents. Gart...that's a new one! Even the Super Squad types were hampered by the guns? I haven't heard a breakdown on this year's Nationals, but I recall quite a few of the top guys running 6" guns last year. R, Gart (< lol ), Top guys, like who? Off the top of my head... TGO, TJ, and MV . But, not Manny, Travis, Ted, Blake, Taran, Shannon....etc. But, the point I was making is that...underclassmen tend to not drive those 6in. guns as well. Of the non big name shooters...I've only seen 2 that run the 6in well. Often, what I see is the gun looks like a wet noodle wiggling around in their hand during recoil. Which is something that could be trained up, but often isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 We had the 50 yard standards classifier in a local match a while back. I thought I did pretty well with my open gun (A class). Turns out that I wasn't even close to the stage winner, a GM with a g17. I've asked him previously why he doesn't shoot a 34 (with all the talk about the extra sight radius) and he said that he prefers the recoil impulse of the 17. The thing I took from this is that the extra sight radius is only one factor (of many) that should be contemplated when making your decision. It may or may not provide enough of an advantage to offset other disadvantages (if any.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Hello: If you shoot a 6" pistol make sure it is a lightened 6" one. Benny Hill is the guy that coined the term "Fat Free". I have shot about 10 different 6" 2011's now and they all are different. Some are so heavy they did not work for me very well. You have to shoot one with a lightened slide and a bushing barrel. Saying that I am building one right now with a lightened slide and a bull barrel. If I don't like the bull barrel I will turn it down and make it a bushing barrel. I have a 6" bushing barrel 2011 now so that I can compare the both. With the 6" the load comes into play alot. Some guys like 200 grain or heavier bullets and others like 165 grain bullets. I would give Benny a call and see what he can make for you. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) Off the top of my head... TGO, TJ, and MV . Looks like Vogel used a long slide Glock. So 2nd, 3rd and 4th....and 9th. That would be 75% of the top 4. I'm not the hallmark for greatness, but I do own both 5" and 6" and a timer. If I'm not giving anything up in time and am getting better hits, where' s the downside? I do agree with Eric that the gun needs to be light, sprung correctly and have the right load. I have tried 4 different bullet weights and 3 different recoil springs just in the first month alone. By December I'm sure I'll be singing the praises of a commander length single stack. Edited October 18, 2010 by Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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