S&B Brass

[Corjyn]

I experienced a scary moment today on the range and was wondering if anyone else had a similar incident. I had a reloaded cartridge split the brass at the base and it threw debris up through the ejection port into my face. I wasn't injured except for a couple abrasions to my nose and cheek. It scared the crap out of me and twisted the follower of my magazine. The brass ejected was an S&B that was previously fired, it ruptured along the base and cracked almost the entire circumference.

Load: .45 ACP

3.8 Gr. Clays

230 Gr. RN Ranier

OAL 1.26

WLP primer

Has anyone else had this happened? I attribute it to a fatigued casing, but I have never had this happen before. Any input would be well appreciated.

Thanks.

John

[bbbean]

I use lots of S&B brass, and a very similar load, and haven't ever had a problem. I think you just drew the short straw and had a worn out or defective piece of brass.

[cslafrain]

Some S&B has a copper washed steel case that looks brass and I have seen it confused for brass. This may not be the case here but the opportunity exists.

[Merlin Orr]

.45 brass seems to last forever. I would wonder if "somehow" the charge was more than the 3.8....?

[sirveyr]

I use lots of S&B brass, and a very similar load, and haven't ever had a problem. I think you just drew the short straw and had a worn out or defective piece of brass.

Same here. Other than the tighter primer pockets, S&B brass has always worked fine in all my guns with all of my loads. Just as bbbean stated, I think you just had a bad piece of brass.

[Corjyn]

I use the 550 Dillon press and have to manually index and after thousands of rounds reloading, I have (knock on wood) never double charged a cartridge. Maybe I missed a small crack during cleaning and inspection. I'm not sure, however it tested my pucker factor and I'm good. Thanks for the replies.

[SiG Lady]

I'm using the same powder, same powder charge, and a 200gr SWC jacketed bullet stock and load into mixed headstamp brass. The occasional S&B shows up in the mix and, except for the slightly snug primer pockets, I've had no 'incidents' of ruptured integrity of S&B or any other manufactured casing brand. We're talking thousands and thousands of reloads. 'Could be your casing was randomly defective. Unless you overcharged it without knowing...

[Corjyn]

I agree with the census that it may be attributed to stressed brass or a double charge. I will inspect more carefully in the future and pay more attention during the reloading process. I immediately thought it was the brass, but maybe it was me. I want to thank you all for the input that helped me.

I hope this reloading SNAFU does not happen to any of you fine people.

Thanks Sig Lady for posting!!!

May your POA be your POI!!!

John

[bbbean]

It occurs to me that the only time I ever had a case rupture at the base was a round from batch of commercial ammo. When I examined the rest of the batch, I found several short rounds that had apparently been sized or crimped loose and allowed the bullet to slide into the case, creating a high pressure situation. It might be worth double checking your crimp and sizing.

[gose]

In my experience S&B brass has (by far) the worst quality of any brass I've seen. Quite a few cracked/split cases already after being fired once, with factory loads (9/.38).

I've also seen several well-documented cases of case failures with factory new S&B rifle ammo.

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

Edited July 28, 2010 by gose

[GrumpyOne]

I've reloaded S&B a couple of times, no splits or booms, but I do notice that sizing the S&B brass is harder (the downstroke on my 550 seems to take more pressure to size the case).

[SLM]

In my experience S&B brass has (by far) the worst quality of any brass I've seen. Quite a few cracked/split cases already after being fired once, with factory loads (9/.38).

I've also seen several well-documented cases of case failures with factory new S&B rifle ammo.

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

Hum, interesting.

Not to start an internet pissing contest but as an Open shooter running 9major, S&B is some of if not the best brass I've used. I've loaded some to the point the headstamp is barely there and have no concerns of the brass failing. The primer pockets stay tight, bullets seat centered (can't say that for once fired R-P brass), it's just good stuff. Last winter I shot the same 150 or so pieces of brass in 7 or 8 indoor matches where I get almost all my brass back. I finally left it on the ground at the A6 match and was sad to see it go.

I can't comment about the rifle stuff. I think I've only shot 20 rounds of .223.

[Walküre]

In my experience S&B brass has (by far) the worst quality of any brass I've seen. Quite a few cracked/split cases already after being fired once, with factory loads (9/.38).

I've also seen several well-documented cases of case failures with factory new S&B rifle ammo.

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

I have yet to experience any failures with S&B brass, new or reloads. I've shot bunch of of S&B in my 9mm (minor) and .40 (major) reloads, have used quite a bit of factory S&B in several handgun calibers in the past, and have also run a decent number of various S&B rifle calibers (.303, 8mm, .223) all with great results.

Note that I did say *brass*. As mentioned earlier, S&B has a newer line of "range safe" ammo (fully-enclosed bullets, lead-free primers, etc) that is actually a steel case with a brass plating (or perhaps a wash). I shot a few boxes of that in 9mm with less than stellar results on several accounts.

[bbbean]

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

I would be happy to recycle that brass for you.

[Carlos]

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

Hum, interesting.

. . . .as an Open shooter running 9major, S&B is some of if not the best brass I've used. I've loaded some to the point the headstamp is barely there and have no concerns of the brass failing. The primer pockets stay tight, bullets seat centered (can't say that for once fired R-P brass), it's just good stuff. Last winter I shot the same 150 or so pieces of brass in 7 or 8 indoor matches where I get almost all my brass back. I finally left it on the ground at the A6 match and was sad to see it go.

Same experience here. I prefer the S&B to other "range" brass as it lasts a long time, is high quality, and 1X fired cases are easy to spot since they primers are colored red (sealed) from the factory. Good brass IMHO.

[Sarge]

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

Hum, interesting.

. . . .as an Open shooter running 9major, S&B is some of if not the best brass I've used. I've loaded some to the point the headstamp is barely there and have no concerns of the brass failing. The primer pockets stay tight, bullets seat centered (can't say that for once fired R-P brass), it's just good stuff. Last winter I shot the same 150 or so pieces of brass in 7 or 8 indoor matches where I get almost all my brass back. I finally left it on the ground at the A6 match and was sad to see it go.

Same experience here. I prefer the S&B to other "range" brass as it lasts a long time, is high quality, and 1X fired cases are easy to spot since they primers are colored red (sealed) from the factory. Good brass IMHO.

The new S&B brass with the red smudge has very tight primer pockets. In my experience I had to ream them all and it just was not worth the extra work. I will have to side with the crowd that says it is good brass.

Grumpy the only S&B that was hard to size for me was determined to be the steel case stuff. They are very good at making it look just like brass!

Edited July 29, 2010 by Sarge

[foilhat]

I have not had any problems with S&B brass, but I don't get that much of it. I may have 100-150 mixed in with 5000 pieces of 45 brass. I did have some *I* marked brass that does not gauge the best after loaded, I have been tossing the *I* brass when I find it.

[gose]

In my experience S&B brass has (by far) the worst quality of any brass I've seen. Quite a few cracked/split cases already after being fired once, with factory loads (9/.38).

I've also seen several well-documented cases of case failures with factory new S&B rifle ammo.

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

I have yet to experience any failures with S&B brass, new or reloads. I've shot bunch of of S&B in my 9mm (minor) and .40 (major) reloads, have used quite a bit of factory S&B in several handgun calibers in the past, and have also run a decent number of various S&B rifle calibers (.303, 8mm, .223) all with great results.

Note that I did say *brass*. As mentioned earlier, S&B has a newer line of "range safe" ammo (fully-enclosed bullets, lead-free primers, etc) that is actually a steel case with a brass plating (or perhaps a wash). I shot a few boxes of that in 9mm with less than stellar results on several accounts.

Me experiences are ~10 years old, so maybe they got their act together.

I remember shooting some of their .38 158gr LRN loads out of my 686s and getting ~10% case splits out of the box. (and no, the cylinders were fine, since this only happened with S&B ). The 9s were better and I had maybe ~1% splits when shot out of my G17 and SIG 210s.

That and their tight primer pockets were enough to make me not want to bother with them.

[jmorris]

Some S&B has a copper washed steel case that looks brass and I have seen it confused for brass.

I have only found this to be true in 9mm. 40 & 45 all seem to be brass, tight pocket but otherwise good.

[DsWright]

S&B is one of the few headstamps i throw in the trash bucket as soon as i see it. Especially in 9mm. Never had one blow up, but the brass quality is really low compared to most other headstamps. In 9mm the brass is actually a couple thousanths wider at the base and causes rings at the bottom of the web when resizing.

[GrumpyOne]

Personally, I throw all S&B brass in the recycle bucket.

Hum, interesting.

. . . .as an Open shooter running 9major, S&B is some of if not the best brass I've used. I've loaded some to the point the headstamp is barely there and have no concerns of the brass failing. The primer pockets stay tight, bullets seat centered (can't say that for once fired R-P brass), it's just good stuff. Last winter I shot the same 150 or so pieces of brass in 7 or 8 indoor matches where I get almost all my brass back. I finally left it on the ground at the A6 match and was sad to see it go.

Same experience here. I prefer the S&B to other "range" brass as it lasts a long time, is high quality, and 1X fired cases are easy to spot since they primers are colored red (sealed) from the factory. Good brass IMHO.

The new S&B brass with the red smudge has very tight primer pockets. In my experience I had to ream them all and it just was not worth the extra work. I will have to side with the crowd that says it is good brass.

Grumpy the only S&B that was hard to size for me was determined to be the steel case stuff. They are very good at making it look just like brass!

It may have been the steel stuff, but I kind of doubt it. It was 40 S&W. I'm sitting there, working the loader, and all of a sudden, I think I've got a super stuck in the powder die or something. Turns out, everything was fine, except the case in the sizer die. Turns out to be an S&B. So, as an experiment, I search and find several more S&B cases and size them....Same thing, very hard to size. I don't think they were steel (never stuck a magnet to them), maybe it's just a harder brass. The primer, well, I never had any issues with it (that I recall). I think the S&B brass is pretty good brass, I just wonder about the hardness of it (maybe being too hard) is why some are experiencing splits with it.

[SiG Lady]

As to their weight: I'm not sure S&B brass is any heavier/thicker/whatever than other headstamps. I grabbed a few S&Bs and a few mixed selection headstamp brass and loosely weighed them, and--actually--the six or so S&Bs were LIGHTER than all the OTHER brands. Now, this wasn't a very scientific or controlled experiment... the brass was all multiple-reloaded stuff and hard to say how much brass was worn off from use, from tumbling, from who-knows-what even before I might've picked it up off the range floor.

But the generalized results indicated that S&Bs were NOT necessarily denser in weight than the others. (I think this point was brought up a little earlier in the thread.)

[joecichlid]

I use lots of S&B brass, and a very similar load, and haven't ever had a problem. I think you just drew the short straw and had a worn out or defective piece of brass.

My thoughts as well.

Joe W.

[Chris iliff]

Never use the stuff again. I took 250 Winchester and 250 RP to the Indiana Section. Zeroed a stage due to an SB brass, I don't know how it snuck in there. Failure to extract, had to get a squib rod. Brass was slightly bulged at bottom and the rim actually looks like it is smaller than the rim on any other 9mm. I think the weak brass and the smaller rim was a combo that lit me up for 160 pts.

I have shot SB before with no problems, in fact, this is the first boo hoo hoo for the Blaster. I just don't think SB has the quality of the others.

9mm Open

[SA Friday]

S&B and GFL are culled, with malice.