texasag93 Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 OK, I have the bug for an AR. I want a 16" barrel, preferably stainless steel, free floated barrel, detachable carry handle w/ removable front sight. I want a rifle that can use the iron sights but be changed to optics with no front post in the way. I believe both DPMS and Rock River Arms both make one in this configuration. Or do they? Which is better, more reliable, durable, accurate? I have shot AR's but know little about them, any help would be appreciated. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 I am a HUGE fan of Rock River Arms. I've got 2, and am planning on purchasing or putting together a few more this year. Accuracy is incredible with one of their rifles and a freefloated barrel. And yes, RRA makes one exactly like you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 You could also check with Fulton Armory. Their Phantom model looks like it might be what your looking for. You could also check with Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports. I think he can build you one to your specs. Most any of them should run and be as accurate as the next. A big part of that will be the ammo and mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 DPMS supports 3 gun competitions, if that has any influence on your decision. They also have JP triggers and some other cool options. Right now their web site sucks. I'd get a custom rifle or custom upper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 RRA or DPMS? Quality is the same, both good. Just comes down to what you can get for what price or call Benny and get exactly what you want.Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 How much trouble is it to get minor loads with a 16" barrel? Nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted January 25, 2004 Author Share Posted January 25, 2004 Never thought about barrel length and PF. I would possibly use it in 3-gun but mostly just want one. 18" would be ideal, 20" or more is just to cumbersome to me. I like the shorty configuration. Looked at Fulton Arms, they have some nice rifles too! Decisions, decisions....... TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Supporting Erik's comment, DPMS has purchased a range near St. Cloud, MN and will be hosting our MN Section match this summer. FWIW, I shot a DPMS .308 last Fall and it was AWESOME! As soon as I recover from my SV investment, that's next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Never thought about barrel length and PF. Consider this carefully. Many 16" barrels have a hard time making minor. Most of the "big dogs" shoot 18 or 20" guns. There is also the reliability issue to consider. The gas system in a AR is designed for a 20" barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 I have no problem making major @ 160 with 16" upper with Winchester Q3131A. I also heard that the Board in the new rules has lowered the pf to 150 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Call JP and talk to them. You won't be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 How much trouble is it to get minor loads with a 16" barrel? Nate the power factor for rifle will be dropping to 150 for minor. their shouldnt be any reason why you cant get 150P/F from a 16" barrel. "Result: Passed Motion: President moves ? rifle power factors be changed to 320 for Major and 150 for minor " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Even 14.5 inch barrels will make the current minor (160PF) with Q3131A or any other ammo that is genuinely M193-spec. The problems with shorter barrels an not making minor are almost always with something wimpy like PMC (which is not to be confused with So. African PMP which will make minor!). The 150PF should make it a moot issue unless you load incredibly wimpy ammo. Re: RRA vs. DPMS ... I've never heard or read anyone complaining about a RRA rifle. I've heard a LOT of people say they were very happy with their guns. Feedback on DPMS is mixed. If all else were equal, I'd go with the RRA. Or a Colt or Bushmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 TXAG, Before you go and spend your hard earned dollars, ask yourself some basic questions: What do you want the gun to do? Will it be for 3G competition or general purpose use? Do you want a heavy weight, medium weight or lightweight barrel? What ammo will you shoot with it 98% of the time? What's my budget? Most times we get caught up in the machines and forget about the "mission" we want the machine to do. Having said that, think about how and what purpose you intend to use it and then define your requirements. Try to find other people's guns to look at and if possible, try out. Bennie Cooley wrote an article for Front Sight magazine back in Nov/Dec 2001(?) on the AR for 3G which was very good. I would suggest reading that article. Having used all of the available manufactures, Bushmaster, Rock River, and DPMS are very good brands and they build a vary of guns that may fit your requirements. As Eric Warren said, DPMS supports 3G and our sport so I choose to support those who support us. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted January 25, 2004 Author Share Posted January 25, 2004 I am looking to spend in the $800-900 range so custom built is just about out of the question. The configuration I stated earlier was to make the rifle as versitile as possible. I don't really know what I will do with it. I haven't gotten into 3-gun yet. I just love to shoot and want one. Might as well have the most versitile one I can afford. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 A 55 grain bullet has to go 2800 fps to make reliable major (with the lowered power factor). I would not call this an easy hand load in a 16" gun. If you want to use a 72 or 75 grain bullet do you have enough barrel to stablize it for maximum accuracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Not only does our resident comic laureate Benny Hill favor the RRA, I believe he has one for sale for about $700. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Let me throw in a couple of things. DPMS would be my choice as far as Comerical stock AR15 over the others, due to what Eric has said about supporting 3Gun & they are very good quality. I shoot DPMS lowers with JP uppers, this has worked quit well for me. I like a 20" gun far better than the 16", the gas system tends to be more choppy with the 16" guns, due to the shorter gas system. If you could shoot both, you would & could feel what I mean. Last PF has never been an issue with the 20" & now really won't if they have changed the PF to 150. Also iron sights will be some what closer with the 16" gun if you are an iron sigthed shooter. Most all of us shoot 20" guns & it doesn't seem to hinder anything. Hope this helps! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Listen to tony, 20" is what's winning. Faster shot to shot w/very little muzzle movement. 16" guns are harsh & takes longer to get the sight picture back after each shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I am looking to spend in the $800-900 range so custom built is just about out of the question. Not really. It's just assembling parts and checking the headspace; there's not a lot of machining or fitting. You could do it yourself if you had the tools. (Consider doing the lower yourself.) You might be able to get a factory custom assembled for you by one of those mfrs., particularly DPMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 If your serious about getting into 3G...spend a little more and get yourself a JP IPSC Limited AR. I shot a DPMS last year and there is no comparison on quality or customer service. Do I sound biased....yep I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Alert ... topic drift ... alert ... gmw2b ... that is one of the best avatars I've ever seen! Where did you find it? End topic drift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bulm5 Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 A 55 grain bullet has to go 2800 fps to make reliable major (with the lowered power factor). I would not call this an easy hand load in a 16" gun. If you want to use a 72 or 75 grain bullet do you have enough barrel to stablize it for maximum accuracy? I thought ou only had to make the minor floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I thought ou only had to make the minor floor. You are correct, R-Man. I think people get conditioned to think "make major" from the pistol shooting, then it's an unconscious thing to say it when talking about rifles, even though they know it's "make minor" for .223. Now I feel like getting a cheap CETME and getting all He-Man at 3-gun matches since they've lowered the minor floor even more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 (edited) Fellow Texan: Try a stock Bushmaster Dissipator model with an AK Bushmaster break and it has full length handguards as well so you can control the gun better. It is within your price range and a very good gun if you put a good trigger and hammer in it ( hint, hint.......JP)! It is a very competitive set up. Feel free to look at my rifle scores in major matches. If not, go full bore and get a JP rifle! ( I also just saw the post for a RRA that Bennie has for $700........not too bad a price!) Guy Hawkins Edited February 3, 2004 by gl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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