The essential upgrades to an AR for 3gun

[aessu]

Since there seems to be a huge amount of threads about this ones, I thought I'll cover the basics here, in different sections.

For me, there is no alternative to rifle length gas system. Recoil impulse is the softest with it. Barrel profile and length are upto personal preferences. I also prefer a fixed length stock. I really cant decide that wich is better, the A2 or ACE ARFX.

Recoil elimination and other gun control:

Step 1) A good trigger and compensator. IMHO, one is useless without the other.

For Tactical class, JP Bennie Cooley, F2, Rolling Thunder, SJC Titan are all good choices. If you are on a budget, get a Miculek. For Open, IMHO the only choice is JP Recoil-Eliminator (aka the "Tank Brake").

For trigger, I'd go with J-P or Jard. Both are good, one likes the another better than other. Remember, a good trigger is worth the money - Sometimes all thats needed to turn a good shooter to a great shooter is a good trigger.

Step 2) Adjustable gas system

A J-P adjustable gas block is the way to go here, I'd say. You can also WECSOG one, if you dare, like I did.

Step 3) Lighter buffer.

Less repricotating (i really cant spell that word) mass means less muzzle movement.

If you dont want to WECSOG get a J-P LMOS buffer for starters. If you want, take the weights out of your current buffer. Make sure to readjust the gas system before shooting the rifle again! If you start encountering problems with bolt bounce, put one of the weights back in.

Step 4) Lighter carrier / reverse hydraulic dampening

This one is one tricky side. You can do either, or both. J-P LMOS is the carrier to look at.

For reverse hydraulic dampening, WECSOG kicks in again. You need a rifle length buffer tube for this. Put a Endine Carbine lenght AR-Restor reversed to the back of your buffer tube. Put in the spring. Then put in your shortened buffer. The buffer needs to be shortened so that its length equals the difference in length between the completely compressed Endine buffer and the normal rifle length buffer.

The ergonomics:

Like said before, i prefer a fixed length buttstock. But here you go. Again, some of these are up to personal preference.

1) The grip. I just plain hate the standard grip. Magpul MOE with some bicycle inner tube is my choice. ERGO also makes some nice grips. This is a personal preference.

2) Free Float Tube

No alternative to one here. You really need one so that you can rest the rifle on barricades etc. without worrying about the change in point of impact. J-P VTAC is really nice. DPMS is one to go for those of you on a budget. I really see no need for 4-rail handguards when it comes to 3-gun.

Sights.

First. Know your zero. Even the best scope or best set of sights in the market is useless without a proper zero! Know your holdovers etc.

For Tactical Irons, I'd go with Plain ol carry handle and a A2 style FSB at the very end of the muzzle, just before the compensator.

For Tactical Optics. This is where it gets tricky. IMHO there is nothing that can beat a good 1-4X... well except a good 1-6x.

There are basically only a few options. Millett DMS-1 for those of you on a tight budget. Its not close to real 1x (perhaps 1.2x really) and the illumination aint daytime visible, but its still good for the money. Next would probably be the Meopta K-Dot, Burris XTR and Trijicon Accupoint TR24. I only have personal experience about the K-Dot, and I really like it. Really close to true 1x. One step higher we have the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x. True 1x to me and the 6x magnification makes those long shots a bit easier. But it comes with price.

I'll add things here when I find out that something is missing. Please keep in mind that many things come to personal preferences when its about shooting. Most of the things expressed here are my personal opinions. YMMV.

Edited June 4, 2010 by aessu

[M ammo]

The short answer

Trigger,,,, I like the JP,, but some of the drop in's are very nice quick and easy.

Free float tube,,, a full length one,,, get all of that stuff off of the barrel,,

For scope,, a scope mount that holds your scope in the right position for you to comfortably, see through it,

your scope needs to be low power,, 1X whatever you can get,, 1.5X4 ish works the best,, buy the best your money can get,,, Burris has a XTR 1x4 that is great for the money,,

I own a Leopold MRT 1.5X5 I like too,,,

Buy ammo and practice

Jim M ammo

[aessu]

The short answer

Trigger,,,, I like the JP,, but some of the drop in's are very nice quick and easy.

Free float tube,,, a full length one,,, get all of that stuff off of the barrel,,

For scope,, a scope mount that holds your scope in the right position for you to comfortably, see through it,

your scope needs to be low power,, 1X whatever you can get,, 1.5X4 ish works the best,, buy the best your money can get,,, Burris has a XTR 1x4 that is great for the money,,

I own a Leopold MRT 1.5X5 I like too,,,

Buy ammo and practice

Jim M ammo

Sorry, i accidentally posted it before I was anywhere near finished. This was ment to be a sort of FAQ. It's still not complete, I'll probably keep adding stuff now and then.

[Corey]

im currently stepping into the 3gun arena myself. Ive put a Burris XTR scope on it and got an email my compensator has shipped to me today. The rifle is a jack-of-all-trades rifle for me right now so im going to use it for range plinking and varmint hunting as well. I have a quad rail free-float tube on it and it balances fine for me, but on a future upper/rifle I would go with a lighter more simpler design. All i left to do is some minor trigger work (maybe just some JP springs to start with)

Edited June 2, 2010 by Corey

[Sean Gaines]

Since there seems to be a huge amount of threads about this ones, I thought I'll cover the basics here, in different sections.

For me, there is no alternative to rifle length gas system. Recoil impulse is the softest with it. Barrel profile and length are upto personal preferences. I also prefer a fixed length stock. I really cant decide that wich is better, the A2 or ACE ARFX.

Recoil elimination and other gun control:

Step 1) A good trigger and compensator. IMHO, one is useless without the other.

For Tactical class, JP Bennie Cooley, F2, Rolling Thunder, SJC Titan are all good choices. If you are on a budget, get a Miculek. For Open, IMHO the only choice is JP Recoil-Eliminator (aka the "Tank Brake").

For trigger, I'd go with J-P or Jard. Both are good, one likes the another better than other. Remember, a good trigger is worth the money - Sometimes all thats needed to turn a good shooter to a great shooter is a good trigger.

Step 2) Adjustable gas system

A J-P adjustable gas block is the way to go here, I'd say. You can also WECSOG one, if you dare, like I did.

Step 3) Lighter buffer.

Less repricotating (i really cant spell that word) mass means less muzzle movement.

If you dont want to WECSOG get a J-P LMOS buffer for starters. If you want, take the weights out of your current buffer. Make sure to readjust the gas system before shooting the rifle again! If you start encountering problems with bolt bounce, put one of the weights back in.

Step 4) Lighter carrier / reverse hydraulic dampening

This one is one tricky side. You can do either, or both. J-P LMOS is the carrier to look at.

For reverse hydraulic dampening, WECSOG kicks in again. You need a rifle length buffer tube for this. Put a Endine Carbine lenght AR-Restor reversed to the back of your buffer tube. Put in the spring. Then put in your shortened buffer. The buffer needs to be shortened so that its length equals the difference in length between the completely compressed Endine buffer and the normal rifle length buffer.

The ergonomics:

Like said before, i prefer a fixed length buttstock. But here you go. Again, some of these are up to personal preference.

1) The grip. I just plain hate the standard grip. Magpul MOE with some bicycle inner tube is my choice. ERGO also makes some nice grips. This is a personal preference.

2) Free Float Tube

No alternative to one here. You really need one so that you can rest the rifle on barricades etc. without worrying about the change in point of impact. J-P VTAC is really nice. DPMS is one to go for those of you on a budget. I really see no need for 4-rail handguards when it comes to 3-gun.

Sights.

For Tactical Irons, I'd go with Plain ol carry handle and a A2 style FSB at the very end of the muzzle, just before the compensator.

For Tactical Optics. This is where it gets tricky. IMHO there is nothing that can beat a good 1-4X... well except a good 1-6x.

There are basically only a few options. Millett DMS-1 for those of you on a tight budget. Its not close to real 1x (perhaps 1.2x really) and the illumination aint daytime visible, but its still good for the money. Next would probably be the Meopta K-Dot, Burris XTR and Trijicon Accupoint TR24. I only have personal experience about the K-Dot, and I really like it. Really close to true 1x. One step higher we have the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x. True 1x to me and the 6x magnification makes those long shots a bit easier. But it comes with price.

I'll add things here when I find out that something is missing. Please keep in mind that many things come to personal preferences when its about shooting. Most of the things expressed here are my personal opinions. YMMV.

I think the consensus will agree with most of your choices. Great list!

[Pro2AInPA]

To be honest, I haven't noticed a real measurable difference between midlength and rifle gas. I will say that a carbine gas system is a no go for 3 gun!

A good muzzle brake is a must. The SJC Titan is fantastic. My new rifle will have a Surefire brake installed when I get it from LaRue. We’ll see how she works.

I tend to stick with 16” barrels. No real difference in accuracy between a 16” and 18” in my experience, at least not in our game. A 16” is a little easier to move into awkward positions and a whatever difference in accuracy there may be at 200 yards means very little when the object is to hit a 8” plate or something similar. I do prefer stainless barrels for competition rifles.

As far as stocks, I’ve been very happy with the Magpul UBR, although I do plan on giving the PRS a try in the future.

Trigger – single stage with a nice light break for me. I really can’t stand 2 stage triggers.

Other than that, lots of .223 components, time at the reloading press, and time on the range practicing!

[aessu]

I think i can feel a light difference between Mid-length and rifle length. And i think that John Paul said that its not really wise to use lightened carriers with other than rifle length systems.

Also, when it comes to practice, a .22lr kit is your friend. You can practice everything else than doubles with it!

Edited June 3, 2010 by aessu

[bunsen27]

aessu you've basically listed all the reason I considered when I was in the market for a dedicated 3-gun AR. The conclusion I came to was to purchase a JP-15. This should be a very good guide for those looking into what is needed from an AR to play this game. As M Ammo mentioned you need a low power optic for the CQB targets. I went a slightly different route and went with a 2x-7x Vortex Viper with BDC reticle. I also run a JP SRTS for the really close targets. I find that with the 7x power it is a great asset for the 200Yd+ targets.

[kellyn]

A good zero is your 1st and foremost accessory!

Then all you need is a trigger, freefloat tube, and comp. (And Bennie Cooley won a National Championship without the comp!)

[smokshwn]

+1 to Kelly's post above.

One of the most important pieces yet most overlooked as well is your zero. It never ceases to amaze me how many guys will sweat blood over which trigger, brake, scope to buy, yet never get a solid zero with the ballistics for their gun.

If I know my zeros and have a good trigger (JP without a doubt) I would consider myself well on my way to good results at a match.

[TruePunisher]

I think the Weaver 1-3 is great budget optic at under $200. The Millett is not day time lit so the illumination isn't worth much and the Weaver is a true 1x. I have both and I would buy more Weavers, but not another Millett.

[Phil G]

As stated above, knowing your zero at different distances is critical. The current trend in course set up frequently requires the shooter to cant or turn the rifle at an angle to shoot under or around ports. With that in mind, it is smart to know your rifles point of impact when it is canted or angled to the right or left. At longer distances it can make quite a difference.

Phil G

[chp5]

$5 - and money well spent IMO.

upgrade

[aessu]

I think the Weaver 1-3 is great budget optic at under $200. The Millett is not day time lit so the illumination isn't worth much and the Weaver is a true 1x. I have both and I would buy more Weavers, but not another Millett.

Not being true 1x doesnt bother me, i can use it with both eyes open. And the reticle is big enough to work without illumination on those hoser stages and i really like having 4x on the upper end.

[aessu]

A good zero is your 1st and foremost accessory!

Then all you need is a trigger, freefloat tube, and comp. (And Bennie Cooley won a National Championship without the comp!)

I totally agree with you about the zero. I'll put it on the list.

Edited June 4, 2010 by aessu

[djeffers]

reverse hydraulic dampening

That is the first time I have heard that. Does anyone happen to know how many people are doing it?

I wish I would have known all this before I bought my first AR! Well, now I have just about replaced everything on an original Bushmaster M4 with the exception of the barrel, BCG, and stock. I guess the bright side is I am very close to putting another AR together!

[davidwiz]

reverse hydraulic dampening

That is the first time I have heard that. Does anyone happen to know how many people are doing it?

There is thread or two about them, some people had used them at the 2009 Ft. Benning 3 Gun match.

Edited August 27, 2010 by davidwiz

[Ulwembu]

I just finished (well almost) my rifle for IPSC Rifle which is similar to the 3Gun rifle part.

I used a Lamar lower receiver (Dutch custom gun brand)with a DPMS lower receiver kit but have changed the triggergroup for a 2-stage trigger from Rock River. That will change again for a single stage JP in the near future. Pistol grip is from CAA (with fingergrooves), stock is ACE skeleton.

Upper receiver is mostly Double Star. I started out with a 20" stainless bull barrel, Double Star gas block, Double Star NM handguard, TNW milled receiver and Double Star standard BCG. The bull barrel was shortened to 18"and threaded to accomdate a Bennie Cooley compensator, barrel thinned under the hand guard to .650. Bolt carrier has been thinned to a weight of 195 gram. I lightened the buffer myself to 89 gram (took 3 weights out). Also, the gas block was changed into adjustable.

On top it has a La Rue mount with a Redfield 2-7x33 scope with Accu-Range reticle (I know it's low budget but, I try to keep costs to a minimum). right behind it, at an 45 degree angle there's a red dot for close range targets.

Except for the trigger, I'm really happy with how it turned out. The upper receiver itself will be changed for a Les Baer without forward assist in October/November.

Not sure if this set up would work for 3Gun (which I hope to come over and shoot a few times myself if finances let me) but for IPSC Rifle it works very good.

[Red_SC]

Thanks for the helpful post, I'm looking at putting together my first AR for 3 gun. I'm bumping it so the next guy doesn't have to get to page 11 to find it.

[Tattoo]

A good zero is your 1st and foremost accessory!

Then all you need is a trigger, freefloat tube, and comp. (And Bennie Cooley won a National Championship without the comp!)

+1 And then spend all the rest of your money on ammo. Practice, practice, practice.

[Hannu]

I guess I started the whole "reverse hydraulic dampening" hype in Finland years ago, so I may need to tell some experiences...

Please note, it will also balance your rifle as Enidine weighs pretty much. Good with Skeleton stock and 18-20" Hbar barrel, but definitely not a good thing with .650" 16" barrel.

Hydraulic dampening holds bolt/carrier/buffer combo back againts bottom of buffer tube little bit longer. It enhances rifle reliability with very light carrier/buffer setups when crappy mags are used or something similar is happening - magazine has more time to lift top round up, which was clearly visible when we shot some high-speed photos about AR-15 cycling. For some reason, it also prevents bolt bounce when full mass bolt carrier but lighweight buffer are used together.

It also affects recoil pretty lot, which has advantages and disadvantages. When shooting off from bipod / prone, it does not feel good. However, my offhand shooting meters is slightly faster with hydraulic dampening when you have to aim. Have not tested it with new lightweight 6.7 oz setup yet, though.

Close range I shoot anyway as fast as my trigger finger works (usually around 0.10-0.12 splits).

I do not care about if recoil is soft or not, all what I care how fast my dot becomes back to target if it left it - clear difference between midlength and rifle gas systems with 16" barrels.

[jacketch]

A good zero with the same ammo you plan to use in the match is your 1st and foremost accessory!

Then all you need is a trigger, freefloat tube, and comp. (And Bennie Cooley won a National Championship without the comp!)