2010 Cup Results

[Chuck Anderson]

You can't just take a normal open gun from USPSA and shoot the Bianchi Cup.

Actually, this is not the case. As long as the grip safety works and the trigger pull is 2 pounds it can be used. An extra sear spring is all that's needed to raise the trigger pull. It would help to use a light recoil spring and lighter load. Would this be competitive? That would depend on the shooter. It's a start and it's very difficult to compete with some shooters that have been shooting this for 20+ years. I know Steve Anderson used to shoot the monthly matches in Circleville. He told me it made for good practice. At one time we had a seperate class at the Cup for these guns but it was dropped due to lack of interest.

I started with a Springfield Open gun with a Weigand mount and a tube scope. No wings, mover base or prone pad. Shot the whole match standing.

Any gun used in USPSA can be used in an Approved Action Pistol monthly match. We don't enforce the rules unless it is a Registered match. (regional, state or national)

I guess we have a different opinion on the rules. I run my AP matches by the rule book, local or not. I've seen too many shooters fall into the trap of shooting local matches, not knowing they were breaking the rules and then being heartbroken when they go to a major match. The reason I said most USPSA Open guns are illegal is because they are. Most will have a sub 2 pound trigger or the grip safety deactivated or both. Both are easy to fix, but you need to know about the rule in order to work within it.

[Action Pistolero]

I never said that we don't let them know about the rules. I don't want to turn anyone away or keep them from trying AP with the gun of their choice just because of someones agenda being shoved down our throats. I'm talking about grip safety and trigger pull in Open and Metallic.

[NOSAJ19]

Thanks Chuck, for the info. Congratulations on your placing. Do we really think anyone will shoot 1920 points with a Production Gun based on current rules, including factory barrel? As previously mentioned, revolver may be the hot ticket. Will still be great fun trying.

So basically, most shooters are using revolvers in DAO & striker fired semi-auto's. Most not prepared to accept @ 7lb.+ DA fist pull, followed by @ 3.5lb. SA pulls.

Cheers, Ando.

Edited June 1, 2010 by NOSAJ19

[Resjudicata]

Yamil photo

what's he shooting? metallic iron division?

Anybody have any close up pics of TGO's gun from this year? I meant to ask him if I could take some pics on Friday but I missed him. I'm interested in the slide and front of the gun.

Chris

[BigDave]

I know of a certain Kiwi who shot a gun setup very similarly to TGOs...in 2006. I might even be able find a pic somwhere.

[Service Desk]

I never said that we don't let them know about the rules. I don't want to turn anyone away or keep them from trying AP with the gun of their choice just because of someones agenda being shoved down our throats. I'm talking about grip safety and trigger pull in Open and Metallic.

Kevin,

I'm with you... we all had to start somewhere.

BTW - Congratulations & well done on your BC 2010 result... (not too shabby for a Virginian)

[Chuck Anderson]

Thanks Chuck, for the info. Congratulations on your placing. Do we really think anyone will shoot 1920 points with a Production Gun based on current rules, including factory barrel? As previously mentioned, revolver may be the hot ticket. Will still be great fun trying.

So basically, most shooters are using revolvers in DAO & striker fired semi-auto's. Most not prepared to accept @ 7lb.+ DA fist pull, followed by @ 3.5lb. SA pulls.

Cheers, Ando.

The mark is a 1900, not 1920. I think it's entirely possible with autos or revolvers. As long as they keep the "official ruling" from the referee in place allowing AM barrels. My G34 prints about 1.5" at 50 yards with the KKM barrel in it. My sloppy performance this year was entirely my fault, not the guns. I know Dave was running a stock barrel in his gun and ended up in the 1830's. Robbie already said he's giving it a run next year in Production, I'm guessing with an Xdm that will have been made all spiffy by the Springfield Custom Shop (within the rules). You're looking at a fair number of USPSA shooters at the top of the game in Production that really are focused on NRA AP, still doing reasonably well. Toss a 100K prize in there and it makes for an awful lot of incentive to do a little more practice to get up there. No one cleaned the plates this year which is entirely possible with a Prod gun, so you can tack on about 20 or so points to the top Production guys scores if they can manage that next year. That puts them awful close to the 1900 mark. Smith shot a 476 on the mover so that's possible. Most of the guys I saw at the top were clean or awful close to it till the 50 on the Practical. That's going to be a sticking point. The barricade is the other major points loss. Get those two down and 1900 is a definite possibility. I'd be willing to bet, (not 100K like Potterfield), that there will be more than one 1900 in Production next year. That's why I'm gonna go hide in Metallic

[Allgoodhits]

Thanks Chuck, for the info. Congratulations on your placing. Do we really think anyone will shoot 1920 points with a Production Gun based on current rules, including factory barrel? As previously mentioned, revolver may be the hot ticket. Will still be great fun trying.

So basically, most shooters are using revolvers in DAO & striker fired semi-auto's. Most not prepared to accept @ 7lb.+ DA fist pull, followed by @ 3.5lb. SA pulls.

Cheers, Ando.

The mark is a 1900, not 1920. I think it's entirely possible with autos or revolvers. As long as they keep the "official ruling" from the referee in place allowing AM barrels. My G34 prints about 1.5" at 50 yards with the KKM barrel in it. My sloppy performance this year was entirely my fault, not the guns. I know Dave was running a stock barrel in his gun and ended up in the 1830's. Robbie already said he's giving it a run next year in Production, I'm guessing with an Xdm that will have been made all spiffy by the Springfield Custom Shop (within the rules). You're looking at a fair number of USPSA shooters at the top of the game in Production that really are focused on NRA AP, still doing reasonably well. Toss a 100K prize in there and it makes for an awful lot of incentive to do a little more practice to get up there. No one cleaned the plates this year which is entirely possible with a Prod gun, so you can tack on about 20 or so points to the top Production guys scores if they can manage that next year. That puts them awful close to the 1900 mark. Smith shot a 476 on the mover so that's possible. Most of the guys I saw at the top were clean or awful close to it till the 50 on the Practical. That's going to be a sticking point. The barricade is the other major points loss. Get those two down and 1900 is a definite possibility. I'd be willing to bet, (not 100K like Potterfield), that there will be more than one 1900 in Production next year. That's why I'm gonna go hide in Metallic

You gotta love the NRA for what they do in the big picture, but they need to let someone take over the AP game. For the past years we have heard how they want to get the "everyman and everwomen" into the game with regular off the shelf type guns and not head for the equipment race of the the high dollar open and now metallic guns. First came Stock, now that has evolved into what they call a Production Gun Division.

So now what is on the table? A $100K bounty on the first person to break 1900 pts with a "yet to be defined, Production Gun". Well guess what boys and girls, the entry level of even local Club Champ may as well stay home next year because ALL the best Shooters in the World probably have been thinking about what Production gun they intend to modify. My guess is that there are at least some top guns, who have already dug a Production gun out of their safe. Within 60 days, there will be some one inch Production Guns being fired somewhere. I am sure the engineers at GLOCK,Smith & Wesson and Springfield are already working on it.

I hope some reconsideration is given to this promotion, as it is counter productive to that which has been articulated as the number #1 problem with NRA Actions Pistol's failing to attract more shooters.

On another note, why didn't Doug Koenig get two Bianchi Cups? Had the person firing in Production, Metallic, Senior, Junior, Women fired the Highest score they would have earned the Bianchi Cup and they would have received their Bianchi Cup for their Special Category, yet the OPEN GUN shooter would have received no such Cup. Here again the NRA overlooked a situation, that had it occurred would have looked awefully lame.

Overall the Match was what it is. A high stakes, high pressure match that is full of "that never happened befores" to novice as well as pro shooters. A match full of controversial rulings and reversals that just should not be happening at a match that has been run now 32 times. There appears to be a huge disconnect between the NRA and the GV Club personel with each pointing the finger at the other. Kind of like a marriage, they don't seem to get along very well, yet they stay in the relationship. I am sure next year will offer little change, but hopefully it will be....

Gotta go dig out my Production Gun and start shooting!

MJ

[Resjudicata]

I know of a certain Kiwi who shot a gun setup very similarly to TGOs...in 2006. I might even be able find a pic somwhere.

That'd be great. Thanks.

Chris

[eerw]

I know of a certain Kiwi who shot a gun setup very similarly to TGOs...in 2006. I might even be able find a pic somwhere.

That'd be great. Thanks.

Chris

appreciate it. would love to see the setup.

[benos]

Here is a video clip of TGO shooting the mover when he had a jam/FTF.

Chris

Thanks for that link. He's a pretty calm dude, that TGO.

be

[Flexmoney]

I know of a certain Kiwi who shot a gun setup very similarly to TGOs...in 2006. I might even be able find a pic somwhere.

That'd be great. Thanks.

Chris

appreciate it. would love to see the setup.

It should be posted here, on the forum. Probably here in the AP section.

[Resjudicata]

Here is a video clip of TGO shooting the mover when he had a jam/FTF.

Chris

Thanks for that link. He's a pretty calm dude, that TGO.

be

Yes, he certainly is. I asked him about his hits later and he said those two shots just under the wire were an 8 and a 10. That's damn amazing. They don't call him TGO for nothing. For any of the rest of us those would have been 5's at best but probably misses.

And, after this happened you could tell he wasn't happy but he didn't throw anything or act out in any way. You can tell he has been there and had it go both good and bad before. It just is what it is. I'm glad I got to see him shoot.

Chris

[gm iprod]

Be aware that the front locking system was patented or has patents pending. It essentially attaches the barrel to the frame via a block and has a bushing built into that block. Not sure but I think Robbie ran a long slider last year. Never had a chance to look at his gun, but from what I heard it was essentially the same as mine from 2006.

Edited June 3, 2010 by gm iprod

[gm iprod]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32100

Excellent picture of front locking system. Thanks to BigDave.

[eerw]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32100

Excellent picture of front locking system. Thanks to BigDave.

TGO's doesn't look like its attached to the frame. like the one in your photo.

the idea looks similar to the Leibenberg modular gun from years ago or the Huening gun he built for Christie Rogers for a Bianchi open gun.

[gm iprod]

More like this picture from the website.

http://www.pistoldynamics.com/index.html

Wait for it to come up in the box to the top right.

http://www.pistoldynamics.com/Revo-Comp-09.html ??

The visoe does not show Robbie sgun very well. Well anyways special gun or not he did real well. All I need to do is get my head out of my rear end

often enough.

[jasmap]

Kyle Schmidt was using a Springfield. Not sure XD or Xdm

Encoh Smith ???

Dave Sevigny Glock 34

Phil Strader Smith M&P9L or Pro

Vance Schmid ???

Jerry Miculek ???

Mark Owensby ???

Randi Rogers Glock 34

Chuck Anderson Glock 34 (with one of them new cheater KKM barrels installed the week before Bianchi)

Alan Fleshman ???

Kyle shot an XD. He has both guns but he preferred the slightly longer sight radius of the XD for the Bianchi.

He's a modest guy. We went to his house Monday for a Memorial Day BBQ and he never offered to show off the Bianchi Cup trophy until we bugged him about it.

[1911vm]

Ok I guess I have a (simple) question. First timer, if I would like to shoot metallic next year. What gun and sights can I go and perches without going to crazy.

[Alan550]

Ok I guess I have a (simple) question. First timer, if I would like to shoot metallic next year. What gun and sights can I go and perches without going to crazy.

The Metallic Sight Division is pretty wide open. No barricade wings, optics or comps allowed. There are other minor restrictions. Check out the NRA web site Competitions page, and click the Rule Books & Scoring Materials section. Action Pistol rules are there. ( I can't get the link function to work)

Look under the Equipment section (Chapter 3) and it's pretty well explained.

Alan~^~

Edited June 5, 2010 by Alan550

[gm iprod]

1911vm,

Anything 1911 in 9mm or 38Super would be an excellent start point. I have sold a bunch of guys who are shooting Metallic here the Kimber Target 2 in those calibres (delending on preference and already owned reloading gear). You will need to add only an ambi safety to get going. The sights are fine out of the box. One guy preferred a Fibre Optic front and went that way. As time has gone by, a couple have added a 6" barrel and a weight (as per previous pictures) to the barrel and mounted the front sight on that. That gave them a better sight radius and a small reduction in muzzle rise.

You can start simple and go nuts as money allows. This is the beauty of Metallic. Plus you can pretty much what you want as far as holster and trigger is concerned (as long as you stay 2lbs plus).

My gun was expensive! But it now has 25K rounds on it and a few extra mods, it still holds 1.5" groups at 50Y, subject to operator error. Most Kimbers give about 2.5" at best in my expenrience.

The thing is that Kimber have not discovered how good their Target 2's are for NRA AP.

[1911vm]

1911vm,

Anything 1911 in 9mm or 38Super would be an excellent start point. I have sold a bunch of guys who are shooting Metallic here the Kimber Target 2 in those calibres (delending on preference and already owned reloading gear). You will need to add only an ambi safety to get going. The sights are fine out of the box. One guy preferred a Fibre Optic front and went that way. As time has gone by, a couple have added a 6" barrel and a weight (as per previous pictures) to the barrel and mounted the front sight on that. That gave them a better sight radius and a small reduction in muzzle rise.

You can start simple and go nuts as money allows. This is the beauty of Metallic. Plus you can pretty much what you want as far as holster and trigger is concerned (as long as you stay 2lbs plus).

My gun was expensive! But it now has 25K rounds on it and a few extra mods, it still holds 1.5" groups at 50Y, subject to operator error. Most Kimbers give about 2.5" at best in my expenrience.

The thing is that Kimber have not discovered how good their Target 2's are for NRA AP.

This sounds good I have a S/A 9mm 1911. I do not know how accurate it is but I am sure it will do. Now a stupid question can you shoot metallic division with a production gun and gear .

[gm iprod]

Yes you can, a production gun has all the attributes of a metallic gun. You will be disadvantaged to begin with, but I suspect TGO would give me a good hiding with a production gun in metallic division. You could also in theory win the whole thing with a production gun. All you need to do is shoot better than everybody else. Job done

I had a S/A 1911 Loaded in 9mm. Use the Springfield mags with the crimped nose and I think you will do well. Mine shot real good with 125gr JHP Zero. Use about 3.8gr Titegroup OAL = 1.125". See how it goes.

Edited June 6, 2010 by gm iprod

[1911vm]

Yes you can, a production gun has all the attributes of a metallic gun. You will be disadvantaged to begin with, but I suspect TGO would give me a good hiding with a production gun in metallic division. You could also in theory win the whole thing with a production gun. All you need to do is shoot better than everybody else. Job done

I had a S/A 1911 Loaded in 9mm. Use the Springfield mags with the crimped nose and I think you will do well. Mine shot real good with 125gr JHP Zero. Use about 3.8gr Titegroup OAL = 1.125". See how it goes.

The question on the production gun was to find out if I could shoot both production and metallic with the same gun.

And are their rear sights that are easily adjusted that can be used 25.to 50yards. I was totally fascinated with the levers on the open guns for the movers, so that is where I got the idea

[Chuck Anderson]

I shot this match wtih an Aristocrat rear sight on my Metallic gun. It's three position rear sight. I figured I'd shoot the 10-20 yard stuff on one setting, the 25-35 on another and the 50 on the last. By the time I started using it I realized that if you're using a reasonably quick 9mm, there just isn't enough drop to need to mess with it.

If you're coming from USPSA to AP just know that you're Production gun might already be your metallic gun. There are a lot more restrictions on Production in the NRA than there are in USPSA. For example, no stippling, 3.5 lb trigger (every shot), no slide milling for any reason etc. You might be well served just taking a USPSA Production gun and shooting metallic with it.