"Gaming" vs "True Intent" of a stage

[LChico]

I believe I probably owe apologies and perhaps need to change my view of the sport. Shot my first match in Sanford, NC in 1978 or 79, so I have been in the game for a while now.

It had been hammered into me all my life that you obey the rules in sports or it is considered cheating. Kinda funny because I have always lived my life outside the lines but I have never strayed from the letter of the law/rules with regards to sports. Our mantra in SF was if you ain't cheating then you ain't trying, but that was a different world and lives were on the line.

This sport/game has definitely evolved through the years and has become very dynamic and one hell of a lot of fun, but it is still only a sport/game.

I probably won't change my ethics, but it is wrong of me to impose my views on others. I always looked at it like running a 220 yard race around the outside of a football field. We know you are supposed to run around the field, but if someone decides they are going to cut across the middle of the field and get to the finish line first, because no one said they couldn't, I just don't understand where one would get satisfaction from that. It would be a hollow victory for me.

I can not find it in myself to manipulate the rules/stage design to win. Old school values? don't know. Apparently that may be my shortcoming, but I will deal with that. I feel I am cheating if I try and do this.

Again, if I have offended anyone, I apologize. If I haven't offended you, then I am sure I will eventually.

Best to all of ya,

JT

Jack, my comments were not personally directed in any way. The fact that I had to include a line in my major match checklist (which I send literally all over the country) indicates that you are certainly not the only person who sometimes wants a more defined course of fire.

No one wants you to consider shooting stages in ways that make you uncomfortable or violate your personal ethics. I guess the difference for me is that I think gaming is completely within the rules (therefore not cheating). It is like building the better mousetrap. We have things in common with other shooting sports: Skill helps; Practice helps; Good equipment helps. What separates USPSA from other shooting sports is that we reward one other skill set: Having the ability to look at a stage and visualize different ways to shoot it within the rules - to think out of the box - to know that your skill, equipment, footwork or speed will allow you to take a different path. It is a risk-benefit assessment.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

Edited May 25, 2010 by LChico

[Jack T]

Funny, I was talking to Kay Miculek earlier today, and she said it was the old school 50 yard standards that gave her the advantage in winning the Area 4 over Athena lee.

Standards were big back in the day and that is what I grew up in and it was definitely boring. Rarely see them anymore.

Hate loosing, so I reckon I need to change my views and get with the program.

You still on that nurses late night schedule, even in retirement?

Jack

Edited May 25, 2010 by Jack T

[kurtm]

Redneck Tactical rule # 12...gamer is the name applied to a born again "tactical shooter". This isn't Europe...if it isn't EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN it must be allowed!

[LPatterson]

Redneck Tactical rule # 12...gamer is the name applied to a born again "tactical shooter". This isn't Europe...if it isn't EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN it must be allowed!

Finally a post that explains the essence of the game.

[bigbrowndog]

As Kurt said, if you want something done then say it plainly in your description, descriptions should be like faultlines you should KNOW exactly where they are and they should direct you exactly where you are supposed to go, if the faultline is flexible like rope or barrier tape then do not be suprised if someone stretches it.

personally I've always liked RULE #1 in the Redneck Tactical rulebook, "Semper Gumby" (always flexible)

trapr

[Jack T]

Redneck Tactical rule # 12...gamer is the name applied to a born again "tactical shooter". This isn't Europe...if it isn't EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN it must be allowed!

Seriously, the simplicity of this statement makes great sense to me.

Gaming just sounds so "Gay". Kinda like a Gay Gamer. Can't it be called something a little more macho/manly for 3-Gun?

Jack

[AlamoShooter]

Redneck Tactical rule # 12...gamer is the name applied to a born again "tactical shooter". This isn't Europe...if it isn't EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN it must be allowed!

Finally a post that explains the essence of the game.

Up to a point, and thin you fall of the Gamer Cliff.

If the 440 yard race on the track has one runner that wants to cross the finish line first and still stay in his lane. The starter's gun fires and the "runner" takes two steps backwards and three steps forward to cross the line first.

The Runner did not Win a 440 yard race. You still have to run 440 yards to win a 440 no mater the rule of that you stayed in your lane.

I am all for Bulling a stage. Running the stage and not the stage running me, but I still know what a 440 race is.

JF

The Bully in SOB is for Stage Bully AKA Snobby Opengun Bullies

[MarkCO]

Seriously, the simplicity of this statement makes great sense to me.

Gaming just sounds so "Gay". Kinda like a Gay Gamer. Can't it be called something a little more macho/manly for 3-Gun?

Jack

How about one of these...Tactically Advantageous, Clock Shifter, Trapr Factor, Strategist, Winner...

[M ammo]

I think we have all talked about this in the past,,

I would rather not have 1000”s of rules, that read like a Military regulation.

It all comes down to the Stage description. The IT is in it or it is not in it,

The flexibility this gives, keeps Stages interesting.

Jim M ammo

[Jadeslade]

Redneck Tactical rule # 12...gamer is the name applied to a born again "tactical shooter". This isn't Europe...if it isn't EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN it must be allowed!

Finally a post that explains the essence of the game.

I am all for Bulling a stage.

JF

The Bully in SOB is for Stage Bully AKA Snobby Opengun Bullies

Jamie-you funny. I like this- it is like Pulling a Moose. I'm gonna do Bulling a Stage. Seriously-you are excellent shooter and great perspective.

[bigbrowndog]

we could go with gumbying a stage for those of us who remember gumby, or bendering a stage for those of us that know Futurama.

The nice thing about gumby is that we can use his cohorts name for those that do not wish to game,..........pokey!!!!

The way jamie spells, are we sure he meant "bulling"

trapr

Edited May 25, 2010 by bigbrowndog

[Jadeslade]

Yes- gumbying is it. I forgat about Broadway Gumby Rose-the great New York City shooter who used to shoot everything while holding an excellent Churchill in his teeth. Used a Buck Rogers Open .45. Heres' a picture from the early days of IPSC. Gumby used to call it buckwheatin' a stage when he shot everything from one position and through hard and soft cover, getting all A's.

[Jesse Tischauser]

There you have it boys and girls. I'm calling Wikipedia to get this one on record.

[AlamoShooter]

Bender

Stage Bender as in "He read the stage brief and he is going on a Bender"

SOB #1 Bending stages near you

Edited May 25, 2010 by AlamoShooter

[M ammo]

Stage Bender

That sounds much better than GAMER!

I'm not Gaming I'm Stage bending oooolalallala

[smokshwn]

Redneck Tactical rule # 12...gamer is the name applied to a born again "tactical shooter". This isn't Europe...if it isn't EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN it must be allowed!

Seriously, the simplicity of this statement makes great sense to me.

Gaming just sounds so "Gay". Kinda like a Gay Gamer. Can't it be called something a little more macho/manly for 3-Gun?

Jack

Gaming sounds "Gay" because it was coined by those who lack the imagination for a more creative term like "WINNER"

[No.343]

I never knew so many of my friends are gay.

[AlamoShooter]

I never knew so many of my friends are gay.

We could have told you

[el pres]

Forget about Gumby it's all about Mr. bill's safety tips

But then I found this ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFjRYaMUHIU

[Rcurly]

I never knew so many of my friends are gay.

They're out of the closet now I believe "gamer" was coined as an insulting term for an IPSC competitor in general as in "he plays games instead of real life training". Never liked the term.

[AlamoShooter]

What about the "Game" the Mayans played = trying to put the ball in the small stone ring. The winner's killed the the 2nd place team.

I wonder what happened to the RO in that game

I wonder what a procedural penalty was

[kellyn]

What about the "Game" the Mayans played = trying to put the ball in the small stone ring. The winner's killed the the 2nd place team.

I wonder what happened to the RO in that game

I wonder what a procedural penalty was

If we did that, Daniel Horner would get awfully lonely awfully quickly after he killed us all.

[AlamoShooter]

What about the "Game" the Mayans played = trying to put the ball in the small stone ring. The winner's killed the the 2nd place team.

I wonder what happened to the RO in that game

I wonder what a procedural penalty was

If we did that, Daniel Horner would get awfully lonely awfully quickly after he killed us all.

Ya know he would most likely be the ...cause of the first -Procedular- Besides a match like that would be lonely any way.

Moma told me not to come

[Jesse Tischauser]

I never knew so many of my friends are gay.

Just for the record I have no idea who No.343 is. We have never met even though he lives in OK.

Right Javier?

[Jim Norman]

Call it 'Bending' or 'Doing a Gumby' I have no problem with that.

At a major match, the stages must be 'bullet-proof' no holes in the stage, or in the WSB. Intent is out the window. You said this, you did not say that and I can do as I please within the general rules and the WSB.

At a local match that is often built the morning of the match sometimes there is an obvious intent and a whole a mile wide was left due to time constraints. Rather than turn an otherwise good stage and a fun match into a pissing contest, make the change required, either a Forbidden Action ( I would have handled that different) or make a change to the WSB and/or the stage.

All our ranges are one-way and score is kept on a sheet of paper, or in a Palm. No one is going to win the big Buick at most matches. Most of us shoot essentially for the fun. Yes, most of us also like very much to win or place better than we did last time. But taking a perfectly good stage that presents a test of shooting ability within a dynamic situation and deciding that due to a couple words on a sheet of paper that certain targets are worth not taking is in my opinion wrong.

I would like to be able to say that I can tell the difference between an 'honest attempt' and a shot tossed downrange. Actually I think most of us can. It is a 400 yard shot, the penalty is 10 seconds for a miss and 10 for an FTE. Shooter runs up, doesn't even bother to go prone, or take a knee, fires one shot down range in the general direction of the target, Miss, 10 seconds, no FTE as opposed to stopping assuming a position and taking at least 3 aimed shots before deciding he missed. Time to 'actually engage'? someone here said 3 seconds per shot. OK, so he still gets a miss, no FTE and it took him 9 seconds. Our Gamer (used deliberately in the pejorative sense here)took 1 second to get his miss and no FTE. He wins as his time was at least 9 seconds faster. Big match, I agree, this should not happen, the penalties should be severe enough to make you have to take the shot and you should be skilled enough that you don't need to dump a 30 down range at on target. Local/small match? We need some way to educate the designer but also we need to maintain the integrity of the match and stages.

One could make a WSB say, you cannot move till you have hit all the targets from a position, Not fun. Or maybe at least three attempts to hit the target must be made. If one has to stop and knows he has to fire three shots, it might just make sense to take the time to make shot one an aimed shot that hits the target. This would possibly force the ones most likely to break a stage to actually shoot it while not making a lower skilled shooter essentially have to time out on one target he just can't hit.

One must always keep in mind that 90% of the people that are shooting are there for the social and fun portion, 10% are out for the top slot. And those 10% are going to slowly find themselves in the 90% group as they age out of physical ability. I hear Daniels name mentioned above. Put him up against a lot of the other top shooters no and again in 15 years. He will still be going strong at 35, while many of the top guns of today will be into their 60's and many more of us will be in our 70's. We will still, hopefully be out shooting and having a good time, but we have to know that we won't be winning other than Top Super Senior.

Ok, Rant off. Time for more medication. I really wish the Nurse looked more like Megan Fox and less like Nik!

Jim