Tom Mainus Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I have finally located a 38 super revolver and should have it in a couple of days. The new brass from Starline showed up today. Now what. I am looking for any load info that you revolver guys can give me. I have a boat load of VVn350 for powder. I am going to be using it for ICORE and Production. So power factor should not be an issue as long as it is above 130 for comfort. Bullet weight? OAL? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hey Tom how are you doing. I use R-P nickel brass, federal primers and 135 gr "billy bullets" which are moly coated, my load is 4.0 gr of VV-n320 which gives me about 1010 fps. Vic Pickett uses the same components except he uses SOLO1000 powder, not sure on his charge but he runs his around 950 fps. don't know what the OAL is on both of out loads, but I put my bullet in till it looked right, Vic loads his longer than what I use, but it really doesn't matter since it is a minor load and you don't get into pressure problems. you can get the moon clips from TK Custom at moonclip.com or you can get them from Dave Hearth (805) 344-4850, Dave are more expensive $8 each but I think if you buy 20 or more he will discount the price, not to sure on it but it never hurts to ask. the bullets we use are made by Rudy Warren who owns Billy Bullets and his phone# is (480) 695-8100 and the 135 sell for $35 per 1000, Rudy also makes the .40/180gr round nose that Bret Starns and I showed you at the Desert Classic and they sell for $40/1000, and it is the only true round nose bullet out there for the .40. Vic Picket sells his Black Magic sprink kit for about $50, it is worth it since you can drop it in and get a 6.5lb trigger without any work on it. his # is (480)834-3107 other than that good luck on your gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I just reread you post and saw that you are going to us VV-n350 powder, and what you will find is that you will have unburned poweder if you try to load it to minor specs. I had started out with n340 since I had a lot if it, then I tried n330, and had the same results, finally when I tried n320 the powder burned fast enough to burn all of it. what ever you do don't use Hodgons Titegoup, it burns to quick and dirty, and if you reload like Jerry M (Border shift) the long forcing cone of the 38 super will burn your middle finger when you open the cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 John, Good to hear from you, hope you had a good X-mas. Thanks for the info, I was hoping some of the more informed revolver guys would help me out. I am open to the powder thing, I just have 4lbs of n350 laying around. I use that for my 38's. I do reload like Jerry(well not really) that is why I wear the glove, to keep from burning my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Tom, Which 38 super did you get? I have the 686 6 shot and i would love to find an 8 shot one. I have a lot of trouble with the moon clips for the 6 shot can't seem to find any that will keep the bullets straight and not wobble.. I love the gun but it burns me up that there are no relly good moon clips out there that work like the ones i have seen for the 8 shot. If you have any luck finding any let me know.. I did get a new mailing from brownells that have both the 8 shot and 6 shot clips for the 38 super but i havent ordered any yet they are a lot thinner then the ones from tk customs., so i dont kown how they will work. I have trouble understanding why these cost so much more than ones for a 45 acp... Have fun with the 38 super they are a lot of fun. Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcambre Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Tom,Which 38 super did you get? I have the 686 6 shot and i would love to find an 8 shot one. I have a lot of trouble with the moon clips for the 6 shot can't seem to find any that will keep the bullets straight and not wobble.. I love the gun but it burns me up that there are no relly good moon clips out there that work like the ones i have seen for the 8 shot. If you have any luck finding any let me know.. I did get a new mailing from brownells that have both the 8 shot and 6 shot clips for the 38 super but i havent ordered any yet they are a lot thinner then the ones from tk customs., so i dont kown how they will work. I have trouble understanding why these cost so much more than ones for a 45 acp... Have fun with the 38 super they are a lot of fun. Leroy My friend is using the Hearth clips with his .38 super 686 and has been happy with them. Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 I found an 8-shot at a gun club in Alabama. One of the members from the forum turned me on to it. It took a couple of phone calls to get the deal done with the Holidays, but I hope to have the gun by the week-end. I am lucky to have found it. My ffl guy was looking for me as well and he heard that they might start producing the 8-shot in 2004 again. He said there was a chance that they will. As far as moon clips go, I haven't ordered any yet. I usually get all my stuff from TK Customs. At the FGN last year I saw some of the Hearth clips and they are very nice. But they are pricey. I would only use them for big matches. At 8$ a pop I wouldn't want them getting stepped on at a local match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Tom, people that I know that have them have settled on Starline brass with the factory full moons. Try some of it in super and see how it works. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Btw, I talked to the guy at Bangers that had the original batch of 8-shot PC 38 Supers made the other day.. he said they made ~300 of them (he gave the exact #, but I forgot) for ICORE folks a year ago (and have none in stock). He said he was considering maybe making another hundred, but he wanted to see more demand... so all of you folks that want one, start demanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mover480 Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 For IPSC/USPSA Open major in 38 super revo I use 8.3 gr VV 3N37 with a 125 gr Zero JHP and Federal magnum primers. Chronos at 1350 fps out of a 5" barrel and I get 1.75" 16-shot groups out of the Ransom Rest at 50 yds. This load is a little overkill for ICORE but it makes the comp work well. Shot this at the IRC a couple years ago. No problem with chrono and the steel fell quite nicely. Noisy though! Brass from Starline can be hit and miss. Some of the 38 super cases have a huge extraction groove that causes floopy moons. Other lots seem to be tighter. RP and WW brass seems to be the tightest and most consistent. Clips from Dave Hearth work great. So do the speedsticks from Phil Rosato. Both are pricey, but they do work! What the world needs is a 38 super case designed for a revolver. Ranch products has some neat clip holders. The ones from Bob Miles work good too. I see TK Custom now has Stainless Steel clip holders. They shouldn't rust like mine do. Although running them through the tumbler seems to clean them up. Check out the MoonSetter at TK Custom for an easy way to load clips. Good luck with the revo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 This is the poop on the 8-shot 38 supers I got from a S&W team shooter. smith will not build anymore of them since there is not enough demand for them out there, and they only have enough left over parts to build around 4 or 5 of them, and they are spoken for. Bangers was only going to have 200 of them built, but the number ended up coming out to 350 made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 What the world needs is a 38 super case designed for a revolver. It surpised me that .38 super was S&W's caliber of choice. it was expecting some real rimless caliber , such as 9x23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedStick Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Tom, For ICORE and a minor power factor, Vit 350 is going to be way to slow of a powder. For minor a fast powder with a bullet around 150-160 grains has always worked well for me. I've used Solo 1000 for ten years, in super and special, and it works well for me. For the past two years I've been using 147 grain round nose bullets from West Coast Bullet and they've done the job. Before that all I used was 160 grain round nose lead bullets. I use R-P brass, it has always been consistant, it works well with TK Custom moonclips and my SpeedSticks. For moonclips I use TK Customs. If I could afford Dave Hearths I would buy them, they are great! In the last 2 1/2 years I've only bent one moonclip shooting matches twice a month. Mover 480 has done more experimenting with the 38 Super and 38 Short Colt in revolver than anyone I know, so heed his advise, he is very knowledgeable on these matters. If I can help you with anything else just shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Anybody tried the .38 Lapua brass for a moonclipped gun? It's rimless, but has a tiny extractor groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Brownells has clips for the 6 and 8 shot Supers now. Theirs are .025 thick. TK's are .035 (at least, for the 6 shot 686). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCARVER Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I have bought a new L Frame 6 shot .38 Super and have had many problems getting my new Winchester brass to eject from the cylinders without having to hammer them out. I have used power factors from 120,000 to 160,000 and achieve the same results. Has anyone else had these problems? If so, what was your solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 BCarver, Need a little more info. Do they fall in easily? Do they eject hard from the first clip or after a few have been fired? And can you fire one or two rounds and then eject? I use a 375 stainles steel rifle bore brush to clean my cylinders. One time through and it is clean. If you have trouble ejecting after one or two rounds you might have a problem with your cylinder. It is a long process PM me and I can go through all the things that I think I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 BCarver, Do you have any pressure signs? What load are you using? Granted, mine is not a "stock" 686 in super but it is the same cylinder. (586-4 with the 38 Super 686 cylinder, Shilen bbl etc) I use TK Custom moonclips and Starline brass with a 130 pf load. No problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCARVER Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 SRT I just bought the 686 .38 Super from the Performance Center. I have loaded new Winchester brass with PF's from 125,000 to 150,000 and I get the same problem. I have not noticed any pressue signs. I thought that the primers were flattening but realized that the extended firing pin was causing the primers to swell from the size of the pin. The loaded moon clips will fall into the chamber before I shoot 2-3 full moon clips and then you can hardly get the brass out. The unfired bullets will go into the chamber okay. I've used fast burning powders like VN320, AA#5, Universal Clay behind an assortment of bullets. WC 124, WC 135, WC 147, Rem 130, Rem 124. I have used Federal Primers and even tested some magnum primers knowing that they would not be reliable but wanting to make sure that the ignition was good. In addition, I have had the cylinders polished but there was not effect +/- with that action. I tested some PMC 115 grain factory and they would eject okay but if I reused the PMC brass with my test loads as mentioned above, I got the same results. In fact, after the first 6 rounds, I couldn't get the cases out without alot of force. I'm using a new Dillon .38 Super sizing die and have experimented with the amounts of taper with no luck. I hope that I've added enough info to assist you in telling me the next step. Oh, I forgot, I'm using factory full moon clips. Thanks in advance, Bobby Carver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Bobby, The PMC factory ammo worked OK? Sounds like it may be load related. How much crimp and what OAL? Another thing. The spent brass ejects fine until you fire 12 to 18 rounds of your loads? Then ejection become difficult? Are the sides of the cases sooty or clean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCARVER Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 SRT, I used crimp in two different degrees: 1. Just enough for the loaded round to fall freely in a chamber check gauge 2. The same crimp as I use in my auto, which is more than #1 above When the PMC cases were ejected, they had sut around the mouth of the case and on the sides of the cases. They were not clean. After I fire about 12-18 rounds, the ejection becomes a problem with new brass. If I'm using once fired, the cases stick after the first moon clip. Thanks in advance for your advice, Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I had this same problem with my 625 45 cal. Turns out my sizing die wasn't quite set low enough so I had a very slight bulge at the bottom of the case. It was small enough that I couldn't see the bulge without measuring it. The live rounds loaded in just fine but they became buggers to eject after firing a few moons. I ended up with more than a few perfect circles punched into my palm from trying to get them out during matches Good luck, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCARVER Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Paul, I appreciate your advice. I'm going to change dies and try that, too. I checked to make sure that the die was sizing all of the way to the bottom of the shell plate but I'm going to change from a Dillon die to a Hornady and test the results. I called Smith&Wesson yesterday and they said to send it to them for review. If I can resolve the problem before doing that, I would be satisfied. Thanks for your response, Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff87 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Hi Bobby, Get one of the EGW dies (undersize) and get someone to hone the cylinders. I have one that shoots great and is no problem. Using Zero 125 with 4.4 VV320 with same Remington brass that I use in my other 38 supers. Hope it works out; that is my favorite S & W at the moment. Buffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Buffy should know, he's the one that figured out how to keep from scaring up my hands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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