Remington 870

[Lisa C]

Is there anyone who could help me with my Remington 870? It's been collecting dust for a year. In 3-gun matches, people have been letting me use their Benelli's.

Someone made a comment that proficiency is attainable and could even be preferred over semi-autos because the pump can actually aid in handling the recoil. Could anyone expound on this technique? Better yet, could someone teach me how to do this?

[Bob Hostetter]

It is possible to become extremely fast with a pump but the semi's will always have a mechnical advantage.

[mdschappell]

With practice, you could run a pump shotgun quickly. However, you mentioned recoil control. I believe you will find that most shooters will tell you that the semi-autos, by the very nature of their actions, shoot softer and have lighter recoil than any pump gun ever would.

[Lisa C]

With practice, you could run a pump shotgun quickly. However, you mentioned recoil control. I believe you will find that most shooters will tell you that the semi-autos, by the very nature of their actions, shoot softer and have lighter recoil than any pump gun ever would.

Thanks. I bought the 870 on impulse because someone recommended it because it was good and affordable. However, I wish I saved it for a Benelli.

[Lisa C]

Is there anyone who could help me with my Remington 870? It's been collecting dust for a year. In 3-gun matches, people have been letting me use their Benelli's.

Someone made a comment that proficiency is attainable and could even be preferred over semi-autos because the pump can actually aid in handling the recoil. Could anyone expound on this technique? Better yet, could someone teach me how to do this?

[Doug S]

Lisa,

Your 870 will recoil all most always more than a semi-auto due to the fact that the action on the 870 is manually un-locked. Most semi's bleed off gas to actuate the action and the bolt is controlled by a recoil spring that is normally inside the stock. About the only way I know of to reduce the recoil of the 870 is to put a pistol grip stock on it. By holding onto the pistol grip and pushing forward, it will cause some of the recoil to be absorbed into your shooting hand and arm instead of your shoulder. All of the 870's in our agency have pistol grip stocks and it seems to help a little bit, though not alot.

An advantage of the 870 is that it will run light loads since the action is manually operated. The 870 will run as fast as you can pump it, a semi will only run as fast as the action allows it to and may not function on light loads, since some of the gas has been bled off.

The Benelli's, FNH's and Remingtons are very good choices for semi autos and used Remington 1100's can be found for around $300-400. There was one in the USPSA classifieds, 2 weeks ago, that was set up for open division and it sold for $450. You might want to consider selling yours and buying a used 1100. There are parts for these shotguns readily available and fairly inexpensive.

I use a Winchester SX2 Practical (same as FNH) for Tactical and a Remington 1100 (that I bought for $325) for Open. I started with the 1100 in tactical and the only thing I added was the mag-tube extention, an Easy-loader and a set of fiber optic sights (about $120 more). When I converted it over to my open gun, I added a reddot sight and a speedwell/tec-loader (about $250 more).

Probably not the answers that you wanted but hopefully they will help. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

Doug

[1chota]

Lisa,

Your 870 will recoil all most always more than a semi-auto due to the fact that the action on the 870 is manually un-locked. Most semi's bleed off gas to actuate the action and the bolt is controlled by a recoil spring that is normally inside the stock. About the only way I know of to reduce the recoil of the 870 is to put a pistol grip stock on it. By holding onto the pistol grip and pushing forward, it will cause some of the recoil to be absorbed into your shooting hand and arm instead of your shoulder. All of the 870's in our agency have pistol grip stocks and it seems to help a little bit, though not alot.

An advantage of the 870 is that it will run light loads since the action is manually operated. The 870 will run as fast as you can pump it, a semi will only run as fast as the action allows it to and may not function on light loads, since some of the gas has been bled off.

The Benelli's, FNH's and Remingtons are very good choices for semi autos and used Remington 1100's can be found for around $300-400. There was one in the USPSA classifieds, 2 weeks ago, that was set up for open division and it sold for $450. You might want to consider selling yours and buying a used 1100. There are parts for these shotguns readily available and fairly inexpensive.

I use a Winchester SX2 Practical (same as FNH) for Tactical and a Remington 1100 (that I bought for $325) for Open. I started with the 1100 in tactical and the only thing I added was the mag-tube extention, an Easy-loader and a set of fiber optic sights (about $120 more). When I converted it over to my open gun, I added a reddot sight and a speedwell/tec-loader (about $250 more).

Probably not the answers that you wanted but hopefully they will help. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

Doug

the reason there are parts available easily, is because one will need them with the 1100. stay away from the remy autoloaders.

[Bob Hostetter]

While it is possible to become very fast with a pump and there are a couple of advantages such as being able to use very light loads, you will always be at a mechnical disadvantage to the semi-auto's. Very few people become good enough with them to keep up. On the other hand if that is what you own there is no reason that you can't compete in 3 gun with it and still be competent and have fun.

And in spite of what many will tell you Remington 1100/11-87's can be made to run very reliably. I have used 1100/11-87's and Benelli's interchangeably for 3 gun for over 20 years, and rarely have any problems with them.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Bob Hostetter

[GrumpyOne]

The 870 is a tank! Totally dependable, damn near unbreakable, will fire anything you put in it, but a tank none the less (I love mine by the way, but don't shoot 3 gun with it, only ducks and dove!). What you want is Ferrari, a Lambo, Maserati, etc. of the auto(loader) world. 870's will punish you if you shoot them enough.

[Blueridge]

I like using an 870 in 3 gun competition. The felt recoil is probably more (I have only shot a few autos, but it seems the case). If you are focused on competition specifically, then I would suggest that you go with an auto. I prefer using firearms that I would use for practical reasons (self-defense, etc...), so I shy away from autos myself.

I personally use a Remington 870, a Remington 7615P (pump action patrol rifle shooting .223), and a Beretta 92D in 3 gun competition. These are not the typical firearms used together in 3 gun competition. I shoot what I like, and enjoy using them in competition.

Find what you like and use that. I hope that you get that Benelli that you want.

[DocMcG]

Lisa,

Are you referencing "riding" recoil in order to quickly cycle the 870 or lowering the felt recoil? Very curious because you are getting a wide variety of answers.

Kyle

Edited April 6, 2010 by DocMcG

[DocMcG]

Lisa,

Are you referencing "riding" recoil in order to quickly cycle the 870 or lowering the felt recoil? Very curious because you are getting a wide variety of answers.

Kyle

(Mods - Sorry for the double question in two different posts. -KM)

[Lisa C]

Lisa,

Your 870 will recoil all most always more than a semi-auto due to the fact that the action on the 870 is manually un-locked. Most semi's bleed off gas to actuate the action and the bolt is controlled by a recoil spring that is normally inside the stock. About the only way I know of to reduce the recoil of the 870 is to put a pistol grip stock on it. By holding onto the pistol grip and pushing forward, it will cause some of the recoil to be absorbed into your shooting hand and arm instead of your shoulder. All of the 870's in our agency have pistol grip stocks and it seems to help a little bit, though not alot.

An advantage of the 870 is that it will run light loads since the action is manually operated. The 870 will run as fast as you can pump it, a semi will only run as fast as the action allows it to and may not function on light loads, since some of the gas has been bled off.

The Benelli's, FNH's and Remingtons are very good choices for semi autos and used Remington 1100's can be found for around $300-400. There was one in the USPSA classifieds, 2 weeks ago, that was set up for open division and it sold for $450. You might want to consider selling yours and buying a used 1100. There are parts for these shotguns readily available and fairly inexpensive.

I use a Winchester SX2 Practical (same as FNH) for Tactical and a Remington 1100 (that I bought for $325) for Open. I started with the 1100 in tactical and the only thing I added was the mag-tube extention, an Easy-loader and a set of fiber optic sights (about $120 more). When I converted it over to my open gun, I added a reddot sight and a speedwell/tec-loader (about $250 more).

Probably not the answers that you wanted but hopefully they will help. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

Doug

I started this thread, twice, and couldn't figure out how to remove on of them. To Mods: sorry

[Religious Shooter]

With a pump you have the option of using really light loads. You can potentially reduce the recoil of your 870 to a point where is has less recoil than an auto.

But since you already have experienced the kick of the Benelli (one of the harder kicking semi's) I don't think you should worry too much about the 870's recoil.

First thing I would recommend is to see if the stock actually fits you. I find the stock stocks are a bit long. I usually go for a shortened stock.

But if it fits you... good enough.

I would also recommend that you get a cheek pad. Huuuugeee difference. If you see the guys at Pala/Piru a lot of us use a stick-on cheek pad. I use these:

Cheek Eez

[Religious Shooter]

Someone made a comment that proficiency is attainable and could even be preferred over semi-autos because the pump can actually aid in handling the recoil. Could anyone expound on this technique? Better yet, could someone teach me how to do this?

I don't know if this is the technique that they were referring too...

But for all long guns Bennie Cooley (sp?) taught a couple of us in a class to, in certain situations, treat the long gun like a bow. You basically pushed with your support hand and pulled with the strong hand. Cooley actually taught us the technique to stabilize the long gun for awkward positions around a barricade. But a side effect of the technique is to reduce recoil.

Rob Haught also teaches the technique specifically for the pump shotgun. I'm sure if you do a search with his name you will eventually dig up a couple of articles on the technique.

For a taste... go to Youtube:

The technique really works for reducing recoil.

And it also aids in SOTM with a long gun as the buttstock isn't hard against your shoulder/chest --- the vibrations and movement from your lower area isn't transferred (as much) to the gun.

[dangucci]

I have an 870 and I use the opposite technique for my weak hand. I find that if I pull the forend towards me it helps me cycle the gun a lot faster. When I pull the trigger I'm immediately cycling the action and the recoil seems to bounce my hand back forward to help close the action faster. I have yet to try three gun, just something I've noticed.

[Lisa C]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I've been searching for pictures of the modifications on my 870 but can't find them. I puppy-proofed the house and can't find anything.

I don't know the correct nomenclature for the modifications but here's the description. It has a Vang Comp barrel, pistol grip, Hogue fore grip, padding on the end of the butt stock, foam cheek pad on top of a soft cheek pad. But the recoil leaves bruises wherever the butt stock makes contact with my body: cheek, shoulder, etc. I've been studying the replies here and will try your suggestions on proper technique in holding the shotgun. Is it possible that this 870 is just to light in weight that it'll beat the crap out of me, no matter what I try?

Another problem is the front sight. The tritium sight has completely faded away. Could I just fill it in with red paint? I was told that if I try to attach a front sight to it, the sight would rattle off.

[Lisa C]

Lisa,

Are you referencing "riding" recoil in order to quickly cycle the 870 or lowering the felt recoil? Very curious because you are getting a wide variety of answers.

Kyle

(Mods - Sorry for the double question in two different posts. -KM)

Yes, "riding" would be the way to describe it. I haven't tried it, though. Haven't touched the shotgun since the last time it bruised me. It left very large bruises.

[bdpaz]

Is it possible that this 870 is just to light in weight that it'll beat the crap out of me, no matter what I try?

Try the push-pull technique shown in the linked video in your other thread. I'm going to try it this weekend with my Mossberg pump. I don't get beat up by the recoil but I have trouble with the muzzle jump and getting back on target quickly.

[Nik Habicht]

Couple of thoughts -- in terms of not getting bruised:

Light loads are your friend in a pump action shotgun. I tend to shoot 2.75 dram 1 oz. or 7/8 oz loads out of mine, along with reduced recoil slugs and buck. Learn where to mount a shotgun -- the buttpad should be on top of your pectoral muscle. Then really hang on to it -- you need a solid mount, use the pistol grip to pull back tight. The shotgun will actually hurt you more if you hold it loosely.....

Work up in practice sessions -- start with just a few rounds, practice regularly, focusing on mounting the gun correctly and solidly, increase your round count gradually. Dry-fire is your friend here on achieving the proper mount and gaining the endurance to not only hold the shotgun up, but to not loosen the mount....

After shooting a 200 round USPSA shotgun match in a day, my upper body's pretty sore from recoil, but I'm not generally bruised anymore. I do remember the bruising though -- from when I was starting out....

[spd522]

I shoot my 870 for 3 gun in Heavy Metal or when shooting NRA Tactical Police matches. I put a Limbsaver recoil

pad (about $30) on it and shoot the cheap bulk pack (100 rd case) Federal shotgun ammo from Walmart.

It recoils softer (to me) than my new Benelli M2 with the Comfortech stock shooting the same ammo. However,

I can shoot the Benelli much faster.

The 870 is not lighter weight than a Benelli. It will be closer in weight to the FN/SX2 or Remington 1100/11-87

guns because of the steel receiver. The Benelli is recoil driven so there are less parts and lighter weight. The others are gas driven and have pistons and extra parts to work the gas system. That adds weight. However, weight cuts felt recoil.

My suggestion would be to go to a match and ask to try other shooter's shotguns. You judge what feels

best for you. Also, is your 870 a 12 gauge? If so you may consider going to a 20 gauge shotgun for

less weight and recoil. It can still play just fine in 3 gun for about all but Heavy Metal division.

Craig

[Nik Habicht]

Duplicate topics merged......

[Jim Norman]

Someone else said it before, Autoloaders run at the speed they run, Period. The mechanical action of the gun will only move so fast with a given load and springs. A Pump on the other-hand is limited by YOU. The faster you can pump, the faster you can shoot.

I am not that fast, but I have beat my shot to shot times on a 5 target steel plate run using my Mossberg over my 1187. Beat it significantly.

Not for competition, but for SHTF, I would take a Pump over an Auto any day. As I get older, I will probably stick to the Auto. It is easier. On me and to operate. Load it and pull the trigger, very little coordination required.

Get a good recoil absorbing stock. This will NOT hurt the action of a Pump, but can really screw with an Auto. Particularly if you have tuned it to the edge of running light loads.

Pistol Grip CAN make for easy loading, or not depending upon your style.

Most important thing is to shoot it till it is second nature. Generally in SG it is not how fast you shoot, but rather how well you shoot and how fast you load.

Jim

[Lisa C]

Lisa,

Your 870 will recoil all most always more than a semi-auto due to the fact that the action on the 870 is manually un-locked. Most semi's bleed off gas to actuate the action and the bolt is controlled by a recoil spring that is normally inside the stock. About the only way I know of to reduce the recoil of the 870 is to put a pistol grip stock on it. By holding onto the pistol grip and pushing forward, it will cause some of the recoil to be absorbed into your shooting hand and arm instead of your shoulder. All of the 870's in our agency have pistol grip stocks and it seems to help a little bit, though not alot.

An advantage of the 870 is that it will run light loads since the action is manually operated. The 870 will run as fast as you can pump it, a semi will only run as fast as the action allows it to and may not function on light loads, since some of the gas has been bled off.

The Benelli's, FNH's and Remingtons are very good choices for semi autos and used Remington 1100's can be found for around $300-400. There was one in the USPSA classifieds, 2 weeks ago, that was set up for open division and it sold for $450. You might want to consider selling yours and buying a used 1100. There are parts for these shotguns readily available and fairly inexpensive.

I use a Winchester SX2 Practical (same as FNH) for Tactical and a Remington 1100 (that I bought for $325) for Open. I started with the 1100 in tactical and the only thing I added was the mag-tube extention, an Easy-loader and a set of fiber optic sights (about $120 more). When I converted it over to my open gun, I added a reddot sight and a speedwell/tec-loader (about $250 more).

Probably not the answers that you wanted but hopefully they will help. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

Doug

Doug,

Do I have this correct? Hold the pistol grip and push forward?

[StealthyBlagga]

The Rem 870 is a good, solid, value-priced pump shotgun. However, it is definitely not something I would recommend for 3-gun for the following reasons:

1) A pump will beat your shoulder a lot more because it does not absorb recoil like a gas operated semi-auto. If you handload unusually light ammo, then maybe you can reduce recoil, but pretty soon you get to a point where the ammo will not knock down the steel targets we use.

2) Contrary to urban legend, pumps are typically LESS reliable than semi-autos because operators often short-stroke them under match pressure. Sure, nobody ever admits this, but I have RO'd a lot of 3-gun matches and seen a lot of supposedly experienced competitors short-stroke when the buzzer goes off.

3) The 870 pump action is not optimal for fast cycling. The tipping bolt design tends to lock up if you pull back on the forend when you pull the trigger. Other pump designs, notably the Winchester 1200/1300 with its rotating bolt, will unlock much more smoothly, and would be my choice if I absolutely had to use a pump in 3-gun. I hear good things about the Benelli Nova too, but have not owned one myself so have very limited experience to draw on.

With the above said, I own a couple of 870s: I have a 12ga I keep laying around for any time I want to shoot a pump (not often), and I bought my son a 20ga Youth for his 10th birthday for trap shooting, and now he runs it in 3-gun. However, I bought them because of the price, huge number of aftermarket parts, and because of a soft-spot for the design, rather than because they are the best pump for 3-gun.

Take my advice: sell the 870 and buy a semi-auto. If you are on a tight budget, you can get a good used Remington semi-auto (1100 or 11-87) for under $400... I run an 11-87 in 3-gun and find it ideal for my needs.

Edited April 6, 2010 by StealthyBlagga