Eric Scher Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I bought an 1895 in .45-70 not that long ago (modern gun) and some reloading equipment & supplies came with it, as did some reloads. Side question: Do Lee dies work in a Dillon 650? OK, main question... I have no particular reason to worry about the reloads beyond the usual concern about shooting someone else's reloads. Plus, the guy has the reloads in plastic cases with labels on them that have these details: Bullet weight Brass brand Primer brand and model Powder brand & model Grain weight Velocity in fps Crimp pressure (Light/med/Heavy) I'm thinking that someone who is that detailed isn't the kind of moron that just throws stuff together without paying attention to what he's doing. And he's a regular at my usual Gun Board (OFCC.Com), so he's not a fly-by-niter either. Still, one likes to be careful, you know? I was thinking that I could pull apart a single exemplar in each set, weigh everything to verify, including the powder charge, and then weigh each complete round. I might see very slight variances in weight, especially in such a large round, but my main concern is either "no charge" or "double charge", not a 1/10th gram variance. So here's the question: Is that a sufficient precaution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Have him take you out to the range and have him shoot some of his ammo in the gun. If he wont, then worry about it. If the loads are within limits from reloading manuals, then take a couple, pull the bullet, and put the powder on the scale. If everything as it is supposed to be, then you should be OK.......Just realize some stuff just happens...... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 (edited) something else you can do is weigh ea loaded round. If they are all w/in a couple grains of each other (to allow for a few tenths grain variation in case/powder/bullet weight), then they are probably ok. If you find some rounds that are significantly different, then be affraid. just a thought, and probably what I'd do. -rvb Edited March 19, 2010 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 (edited) Never, EVER. How many rounds are we talking? Edited March 19, 2010 by Aristotle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Take a couple of rounds from each box as randomly as possible, pull them apart and weight them. Then if all seems well, use them for practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 It has to be from somebody I really know and trust. Otherwise, NO f*#kING WAY would I shoot someone elses reloads. I can't believe guys work the chrono at USPSA matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 something else you can do is weigh ea loaded round. If they are all w/in a couple grains of each other (to allow for a few tenths grain variation in case/powder/bullet weight), then they are probably ok. If you find some rounds that are significantly different, then be affraid. just a thought, and probably what I'd do. -rvb I'd go this route with the caveat of grouping the weights according to headstamp. That way the variables in web thickness should be mitigated as much as possible. JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 You'd need to check for bullet set back, along with all the measurements. Take a loaded round, stick your dial calipers on it. Measure OAL. Then, press the round (lengthwise) between your thumb and your bench, wityh pretty decent pressure. Measure OAL again and see if it has shortened. But, generally... Shooting somebody else's reloads is like wearing somebody else's underwear. I know that I lost a barrel in a similar fashion...and that was from a licensed "ammo manufacturer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Yeah - I wouldn't either - especially in the 45/70. I have the 1895G - and when I was playing with working up loads - it would have been easy for me to use the Ruger #1 data and work up loads 10k over pressure. They may fire fine for a while if they are built that way then one blows it up. Hated using Lee die set for 45/70 - sent them back for Hornady dies, and yes, you can use Lee dies in a 650 - just get the lock rings from dillon - though I didn't try rifle - I just use some Lee pistol dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) Would you trust this man to stay with your wife in your house for the weekend, while you were away? What if your wife were extremely drunk? Wait... First, for this analogy to work - How hot is your wife? Edited March 21, 2010 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I don't fire other people's handloads. Ever. If my gun blows up I'd rather be pissed at me than pissed at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Would you trust this man to stay with your wife in your house for the weekend, while you were away? What if your wife were extremely drunk? Wait... First, for this analogy to work - How hot is your wife? That's F'ed up man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I'm thinking that someone who is that detailed isn't the kind of moron that just throws stuff together without paying attention to what he's doing. I was thinking that I could pull apart a single exemplar in each set, weigh everything to verify, including the powder charge, and then weigh each complete round. People who are not morons make mistakes all the time while reloading. There still is no sure way to tell which powder is in there, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradGannaway Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hell no, no way! It's just not worth a blown off digit to save a few bucks and time. Pull em, and use the bullets and primed cases to load your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I just purchased a Ruger number 1 so the best thing to do is send the ammo to me that way you will be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Scher Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 I just wanted to mention that I never even got to the point of taking apart the bullets to verify powder charge and whether or not it's RL-7, as it's supposed to be. I weighed all the bullets in a brand new box of Hornady LeveRevolution and discovered a variance of roughly 2.2 grains from lightest to heaviest. That's for an entire assembled round. I then weighed the assembled rounds in the reloads I got with the 1895G I bought. Had I found a variance that was similar, or even limited to around 5 grains, I would have been comfortable in shooting them after pulling bullets from a couple of exemplars in each box. Unfortunately, I found a variance that was, to put it bluntly; scary. I realize that I'm dealing with cast lead bullets that have been sized and lubed, but here's what I found for one particular box of loads and their component parts: The allegedly 500gr bullets ranged from 513.3 to 520.4 with a total range of 7.1 and a median of 516.85 The Unprimed brass ranged from162.0 to 205.7 with a total range of 43.7 and a median of 183.85 The primed brass ranged from167.3 to 200.5 with a total range of 33.3 and a median of 183.9 The loaded rounds ranged from725.0 to 757.9 with a total range of 32.9 and a median of741.45 The upshot is that although the largest variance in the loaded bullets was 16.45gn from the median, which is well within the 42.7gn load of RL-7, I calculate that the lighest possible weight of an assembled round, minus the powder & primer, would be 675.3gn, while the heaviest assembled bullet that I have is 757.9gn, for a range of 82.6, which divided by two = 41.3, which is WAY too close to a doubled 42.7gn charge. So, the question changes.... Once I take these bullets apart, should I destroy the powder that was in the assembled rounds or can I reuse it? (This assumes that it appears to be the same as the powder in the bottle of RL-7 that I got with the rifle. Also, what about the partial bottle of RL-7? Dump and destroy or use? Finally, once I have the bullets pulled and the powder dumped, can I reassemble them without first detonating the primers and putting in new ones, or must I return all brass to an unprimed state before starting over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I just purchased a Ruger number 1 so the best thing to do is send the ammo to me that way you will be safe. +1 send it me I will shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 So, the question changes.... Once I take these bullets apart, should I destroy the powder that was in the assembled rounds or can I reuse it? (This assumes that it appears to be the same as the powder in the bottle of RL-7 that I got with the rifle. Also, what about the partial bottle of RL-7? Dump and destroy or use? Finally, once I have the bullets pulled and the powder dumped, can I reassemble them without first detonating the primers and putting in new ones, or must I return all brass to an unprimed state before starting over? Pull the bullets, dump the powder into your rose garden and simply reuse the primed brass and bullets. Powder is cheap enough and is not worth the risk to me. The primers will be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 It's a slight drift............ but I get pissed when at IDPA matches they often make you shoot a "supplied" gun... Hell I don't trust the gun or the ammo.. and they will never let you inspect it. That should be outlawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 It's a slight drift............ but I get pissed when at IDPA matches they often make you shoot a "supplied" gun... Hell I don't trust the gun or the ammo.. and they will never let you inspect it. That should be outlawed. Huh?? Like for a side stage? Or an entire match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I am not trying to start a big argument but, factory ammo could be double charged too and I don't see why everyone is being so paranoid about shooting someone elses reloads. You trust the guy enough to buy a used gun from him, he is giving you ammo that he has used in the gun he is selling... I guess that I don't see what the big deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I am not trying to start a big argument but, factory ammo could be double charged too and I don't see why everyone is being so paranoid about shooting someone elses reloads. You trust the guy enough to buy a used gun from him, he is giving you ammo that he has used in the gun he is selling... I guess that I don't see what the big deal is. Doesn't bother me at all that other have a different view regarding shooting reloads. But the OP asked 'what we would do' and/or our opinion. I'm not pushing it on anyone. But my beliefs are based on my own experiences. Fact is, most recreational hand loaders do not operate with as much fail safes that big ammo manufacturer's with deep pockets would. Although I have heard of faulty factory ammo, in the grand scheme of things, they still have a much lower chance of anything going wrong than any recreational hand loader will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I dont like shooting someone else's reloads and i dont like to reload for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Aristotle I have seen this situation at least a half dozen times --- IN THE MAIN MATCH. (only IDPA) Scenarios like....... You have to load only X rounds in your gun... when you run dry you finish the stage with your partner's revolver (which is on the ground) Or At the state championship in Ohio in 2005... you started the stage with an older model S & W POS semi with a 15 pound DA first shot trigger which you pulled out from under a counter... to do head shots on the first 3 targets... then you shot the rest of the COF with your holstered weapon. I missed 2 of the 3 head shots and that cost me the championship. Many of the IDPA directors think it is cute to make people shoot "stage" guns. I personally think making a shooter use a gun with which they are unfamilier ---generally stuffed with reloads (about which they know nothing)... is a major safety problem. But it is not against any IDPA rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkin Chunker Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I dont like shooting someone else's reloads and i dont like to reload for anyone else. +1. You run short on ammo on the range? If I've got factory loads, I'll more often than not share with someone in a match. If I've got my own reloads -- no way. You might be the nicest guy in the world, but the litigation jackpot can tempt even the stoutest souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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