New Rules

[sperman]

I think bashing the guys involved is bad form.  Especially volunteers who are giving their time to try and make our sport better.  Having said that, I do like the way they handled the production updates last year.  I'm not sure how much the rules changed from the original version to the final release, but I'm sure the rules makers received helpful feedback by showing them to the general public before making them official.

[mactiger]

The interesting thing for me is my x-ray glasses I bought in the comic book are broken. I can't tell if that magazine in the front pocket is in front of the point of the hip bone or not.

Don't guess I'll be making many (if any) of those calls.

Hell, I thought you had X-Ray eyes--you're the only guy I've ever seen use a hotel room key-card for an overlay!

Troy

[joecichlid]

*sits back with some popcorn to see how this one ends* said the only one I have known to game the stage during his RO class to show others something to look for during set up ROFL

Joe W.

[Gary Stevens]

And you did a fine job of it also.

[joecichlid]

Clearly not a good enough job, I picked up two no shoots and a mike. I think I am going to officially change my name to Charlie Mike No Shoot.

Joe W.

[Schutzenmeister]

[...]

Ask Bob A. sometime about how many matches he shot with a small piece of grip tape on his slide before an unfamiliar RO spotted it at Nats....

I was the "unfamiliar" RO who spotted it at Nats ... Bob and I have joked about this on several occasions. I spotted it, referred it to the CRO, who in turn called the RM. The RM said (in effect) 'Welcome to Open, Bob.'

It would seem the "unfamiliar" ROs were the ones who preceded me ... I knew the rule and properly referred it up the chain. I think Bob's over it now ... I haven't seen grip tape on his slide since!

[Schutzenmeister]

Question: Notwithstanding the "effective date" at the top of the posting, this forum is officially 'not official' as a publication of intrepretations and rule changes, as I understand the procedures. I just reviewed the 'official' USPSA web site and the rules page ... I see no mention of these changes.

Accordingly, when will these changes be posted to the 'official' site and, once posted, how long after they are posted do they become 'enforceable'?

[Nik Habicht]

Mike,

I meant unfamiliar, as an RO not regularly encountered by us from the Mid-Atlantic Section --- not to suggest that there was anything wrong with the call. I'm certain you weren't happy to spot the tape, or to make the referral......

I'd imagine the changes will be effective the moment they're posted --- since the effective date on them is apparently March 1, 2010, unless that changes by the time they're posted...

[Schutzenmeister]

Thanks Nik ... I'm afraid I was in a bid of a snit yesterday WRT the rule changes. I do apologize ... especially to Gary, if he somehow took my response personally. Gary is one of the true class-acts in our sport.

I've looked over the changes, some of them are rather mundane, others (IMHO) insane and/or redundant. In any case, I won't waste anyone's time or patience here with my opinion on the matter ... I'll just summarize my readings and send a copy to my AD.

Thanks for putting up with me!

[Gary Stevens]

Thanks Nik ... I'm afraid I was in a bid of a snit yesterday WRT the rule changes. I do apologize ... especially to Gary, if he somehow took my response personally. Gary is one of the true class-acts in our sport.

I've looked over the changes, some of them are rather mundane, others (IMHO) insane and/or redundant. In any case, I won't waste anyone's time or patience here with my opinion on the matter ... I'll just summarize my readings and send a copy to my AD.

Thanks for putting up with me!

Wow can I get that witnessed and notarized? I'll pay the postage

Seriously,

Thanks.

[Ed K]

I'm still a bit confused with the "speed shoot" rule.

If I design a speed shoot COF, am I required to put a mandatory reload somewhere in the WSB?

[Nik Habicht]

I'm still a bit confused with the "speed shoot" rule.

If I design a speed shoot COF, am I required to put a mandatory reload somewhere in the WSB?

Yes -- that's the only way that you can have more than 8 rounds from a single position or view.....

[rgkeller]

I'm still a bit confused with the "speed shoot" rule.

If I design a speed shoot COF, am I required to put a mandatory reload somewhere in the WSB?

Yes -- that's the only way that you can have more than 8 rounds from a single position or view.....

Unless there are eight or fewer rounds in the course of fire.

[Schutzenmeister]

I'm still a bit confused with the "speed shoot" rule.

If I design a speed shoot COF, am I required to put a mandatory reload somewhere in the WSB?

Yes -- that's the only way that you can have more than 8 rounds from a single position or view.....

Unless there are eight or fewer rounds in the course of fire.

Hmm ... Then what is the difference between that and a SHORT CoF? or, in the case of 16 rounds with a reload, a MEDIUM CoF under rule 1.1.5.1? I fail to see the usefullness of this new rule.

[spanky]

Speed shoot doesn't have to require a separate view or location, it appears.

[rgkeller]

I'm still a bit confused with the "speed shoot" rule.

If I design a speed shoot COF, am I required to put a mandatory reload somewhere in the WSB?

Yes -- that's the only way that you can have more than 8 rounds from a single position or view.....

Unless there are eight or fewer rounds in the course of fire.

Hmm ... Then what is the difference between that and a SHORT CoF? or, in the case of 16 rounds with a reload, a MEDIUM CoF under rule 1.1.5.1? I fail to see the usefullness of this new rule.

Now we can have an eight round course and a mandatory reload.

[Schutzenmeister]

Now we can have an eight round course and a mandatory reload.

You already had that option under 1.1.5.1 ...

Edited March 12, 2010 by Schutzenmeister

[Nik Habicht]

I'm still a bit confused with the "speed shoot" rule.

If I design a speed shoot COF, am I required to put a mandatory reload somewhere in the WSB?

Yes -- that's the only way that you can have more than 8 rounds from a single position or view.....

Unless there are eight or fewer rounds in the course of fire.

Hence the more than 8 rounds from a single position or view.....

If you have fewer than eight, you've been good to go without a mandatory reload. This just allows for something in between a short and medium course of fire...

[Nik Habicht]

Hmm ... Then what is the difference between that and a SHORT CoF? or, in the case of 16 rounds with a reload, a MEDIUM CoF under rule 1.1.5.1? I fail to see the usefullness of this new rule.

Really? Now you can have a 9-16 round stage from a single location --- useful for some clubs, including those that shoot from a common firing line in one large pit. It also allows for some interesting speedshoots with a couple of activating poppers, some statics and a couple of movers in a fairly compressed space.....

I can think of some shooting challenges I could put on under this "additional type" of course of fire that I couldn't do under short, medium, long, or standards....

[George Jones]

CLASSIFIERS

The reason recent classifiers have been Standards stages is that a stage must be a legal stage, shot at a major match (Nationals) before it can become a classifier. Since 8-rounds short courses are unpopular (too small round count for the set-up time/effort), it's been almost exclusively Standards (up to 24 rounds).

This new Speed Shoot will allow more variety in stages to potentially become classifiers.

[JThompson]

CLASSIFIERS

The reason recent classifiers have been Standards stages is that a stage must be a legal stage, shot at a major match (Nationals) before it can become a classifier. Since 8-rounds short courses are unpopular (too small round count for the set-up time/effort), it's been almost exclusively Standards (up to 24 rounds).

This new Speed Shoot will allow more variety in stages to potentially become classifiers.

Yup, we needed this one as it was next to impossible to design without it... I covered this on page two, but it nobody seemed interested.......

[BayouSlide]

The rules have now been posted on the USPSA Web site. Anybody notice the following change:

As revised (added words in bold):

5.2.4 During the course of fire after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor’s belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them without penalty, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1).

Curtis

[shootingchef]

The rules have now been posted on the USPSA Web site. Anybody notice the following change:

As revised (added words in bold):

5.2.4 During the course of fire after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor’s belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them without penalty, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1).

Curtis

where on the website?

[BayouSlide]

On the Match Rules page.

Second item (right after "January 2008 Edition USPSA Handgun Rule book"):

"Rule Changes to 2008 edition Handgun Competition Rules effective March 1, 2010 (PDF)".

Curtis

Edited March 16, 2010 by BayouSlide

[Skydiver]

The rules have now been posted on the USPSA Web site. Anybody notice the following change:

As revised (added words in bold):

5.2.4 During the course of fire after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them without penalty, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1).

Curtis

Cool! So no getting bumped to Open walking up to the line with the mag in the front pocket.

Just get bumped to open stuffing the mag into a front pocket during the "If You Are Finished, Unload and Show Clear." or "If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster" commands. :-)