Dan Burwell Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 My personal thought (not as a match official, as my capacity at this event was stats only) is that the stage was fundamentally unfair to those who shot it early who understood the obvious intent of the course designer before competitors knew ROs would not call anyone on using the "trick" and therefore shot the stage as intended. Once the match was well underway, almost everyone was shooting it around the wall. Last year at nationals they added a forbiden action to one stage after one day of shooting and never tossed the stage. This allowed the supper squad to shoot it one way and the rest to do it another. Not saying they were right or wrong, but somehow I have been on the losing side both times I do have to say I had a great time, the staff was fantastic, the stages were excellent. Thank you all who put your time and effort in to making the match a success. Now I have to climb back into my hole and figure out how to shoot better when both hands are on the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrick Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Bummer news all around. News of Stage tossing because the MD and RM didn't like the way competitors legally gamed the High & Low stage. Seems that I have often read John A. state that the problem in not following the intent of the course is because the WSB is incomplete or improperly written. Therein lies their problem. News of LEO not knowing the legal aspects of competitors rights to travel with competition guns and equipment. Experience with MR. Chrono trying to bump someone to minor because he fat fingered the keys when entering the bullet weight. He entered 160 instead of 180. Riverside Inn with their noisy AC units and flat rocks for pillows. Couldn't even get toast with breakfast. Couldn't even buy gas with debit/credit card. Why would I ever want to come back here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 infamous stage 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP4073 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Mo- I think you are trying to get everybody even more fired up! It was good to meet you again this year and shoot the breeze for a few minutes while I was watching your squad shoot. -Matt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Xtreme Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) What is the "X" classification ? Edited August 9, 2010 by Northern Xtreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt2ace Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 My only comment on stage 6 was that the left side of that wall had a 2x4 right across the lower target upper and lower A-zone requiring a lefty to drop down low to hit the A-zone or take c-hits. I shot it and took my c-hits. However, IMHO that fact does point to another reason why pulling that stage was in the best interest of fairness to all shooters. Shot with a great squad and had a good time with every stage. If only my gun had worked better. Great range staff, they really seemed to be having fun (nice weather helps). The half-day format and palm scoring really kept things moving along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glshooter Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I see the results were updated this morning to correct spelling errors. In doing so, some shooters now have X's where their classification should be including me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 X - Expired; kicks in after membership is inactive for an amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 I see the results were updated this morning to correct spelling errors. In doing so, some shooters now have X's where their classification should be including me. I will check this tonight. If you class is not "X" on www.uspsa.org, it should not have been "X" in the results. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmd Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I thought the Area 7 match was run really well. Weather was great, scores were posted in a quick manner and I really liked the stages. Thanks Pathfinder! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adweisbe Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I liked the match and though it was run well. Chrono was a little funky again this year. I heard someone was bumped into open when their production gun was too heavy, but I also know several people who never had their guns checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yep, thanks to the staff we saw and got to shake hands with and all the behind the scenes crew we didn't meet that made this match happen. For a match that included only 3 moving targets, and not a lot of no-shoots, there were plenty of opportunities (which I took full advantage of) to mess up. Mostly fundamentals, some plain bad luck. A really fun match for sure, made me think of the way that USPSA must have been before my time (and all the fun-but-carnival-like gadgetry we get to shoot at now. As to the infamous stage 6, the is the SECOND TIME IN A ROW that the stage I shot what I consider the best of my match (down one point in 6.something in revolver) was thrown out (the other was stage 1 of LPR Nationals last year) and the SECOND TIME IN A ROW that it has dropped me overall in the results. Sure, my division is looked at like a joke by some, but I love it and it's very discouraging when you only get to go to a couple big matches in a 12 month period and the results are FUBARed by "poor" stage briefings that were previously approved by the NROI. Sure, I ended up only .01% out of 3rd in my division, but when the first results were posted I WAS third. WTF. There's always next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) I liked the match and though it was run well. Chrono was a little funky again this year. I heard someone was bumped into open when their production gun was too heavy, but I also know several people who never had their guns checked. I almost was,...I guess a mistake was made in the interpretation. My stock 2 weighed 44.01 and 44.03oz. If it had weighed 46.01 I would be over. I chronied the week before and was 136pf. I was 139 at the match. Edited August 9, 2010 by Mo Hepworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitestir Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Hmmm. "All targets must be engaged through ports".... Pretty simple that if this was in there then it would not have been a problem. It wasn't, so people did not shoot through them. I don't see a problem with the way people shot it....... They followed the course procedures as written, so why throw it out? What makes this different then any other stage that has more then one way to shoot the course of fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revomodel10 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) Hmmm. "All targets must be engaged through ports".... Pretty simple that if this was in there then it would not have been a problem. It wasn't, so people did not shoot through them. I don't see a problem with the way people shot it....... They followed the course procedures as written, so why throw it out? What makes this different then any other stage that has more then one way to shoot the course of fire? It is in the rearview mirror now, let it go Mondays always have lot's of quarterbacks..... This stage is not coming back..... Edited August 10, 2010 by revomodel10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitestir Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 (edited) Please don't drag this down with comments like that. I stated my opinion, as you did earlier! Nothing more. Maturity on this forum has always been one of the reasons that I enjoy this forum! Edited August 9, 2010 by kitestir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Hmmm. "All targets must be engaged through ports".... Pretty simple that if this was in there then it would not have been a problem. that's not exactly true. you can't just tell shooters that "All targets must be engaged through ports" at anything except a level 1 match. 1.1.5 Freestyle – USPSA matches are freestyle. Competitors must be permittedto solve the challenge presented in a freestyle manner, and to shoot targets on an “as and when visible” basis. Courses of fire must not require mandatory reloads nor dictate a shooting position, location or stance, except as specified below. However, conditions may be created, and barriers or other physical limitations may be constructed, to compel a competitor into shooting positions, locations or stances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitestir Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) Hmmm. "All targets must be engaged through ports".... Pretty simple that if this was in there then it would not have been a problem. that's not exactly true. you can't just tell shooters that "All targets must be engaged through ports" at anything except a level 1 match. 1.1.5 Freestyle USPSA matches are freestyle. Competitors must be permittedto solve the challenge presented in a freestyle manner, and to shoot targets on an as and when visible basis. Courses of fire must not require mandatory reloads nor dictate a shooting position, location or stance, except as specified below. However, conditions may be created, and barriers or other physical limitations may be constructed, to compel a competitor into shooting positions, locations or stances. So now I am having an even harder time understanding this.....Seems this is exactly the situation listed above and some shooters "solved the challenge" better then others.......... I didn't shoot the match so I am just trying to understand the process...... Edited August 10, 2010 by kitestir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11b20 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 It is in the rearview mirror now, let it go/quote]Sorry, from where I sit this is just wrong. One of the great things about this forum is the ability for folks from all over to after action review, identify problems and potentially (and frequently) rectify wrongs on a national stage. Mondays always have lot's of quarterbacks...../quote]See above. I've been thinking a lot about replying to this post... I've also been thinking a lot about shutting up! Not very good at the latter. I suspect it's maybe because of what section this thread is taking place in but I can't help notice the conspicuous absence of the normal chorus of very well respected rules guys on this one. There must be a thousand threads over in the rules section that deal with this problem and one phrase drummed into my head via that section is this; "You can't legislate intent" If I've seen it written over there once I've seen it a thousand times, by people with a lot of authority in our community. So from the cheap seats it seems like local RO's, picking up knowledge from this board and trying our damnedest to play by the rules, cannot "legislate intent" but when the rubber meets the road at a big match and someone has egg on their face due to thinking outside the box by a sharp competitor following the letter of the WSB, throw the stage out. Does that sum it up, or am I missing something? Randy said it best early on Every one had the same opportunity. Everyone was read the same WSB some people shot it differently. All shooters had the same opportunity they just did not see it. I don't see why it was tossed /code] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 I will check this tonight. If you class is not "X" on www.uspsa.org, it should not have been "X" in the results. Fixed. I should not have tried an auto classification update after fixing the two bad member numbers. Fortunately, I had the exact copy from the match and posted with those two member numbers (and the misspelled name) correctly taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Where were all the vendors this year? Last year Target Barn, Glock and a few others were there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockoholic Gal Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Alfie & RevoModel10: The A$$es of Area 7 album has been published on Facebook. A7 never looked better! Thanks to all of those who were willing (sometimes demanding) participants in our photo adventure. If you don't utilize FaceBook but would like to see ALL of the pics taken by me, you can PM me and I will send you a link. Thanks to all of you for visiting us at Pathfinder. The A7 staff loved seeing each of you and are grateful for your participation in this match. Regards, Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Alfie & RevoModel10: The A$$es of Area 7 album has been published on Facebook. A7 never looked better! Thanks to all of those who were willing (sometimes demanding) participants in our photo adventure. If you don't utilize FaceBook but would like to see ALL of the pics taken by me, you can PM me and I will send you a link. Thanks to all of you for visiting us at Pathfinder. The A7 staff loved seeing each of you and are grateful for your participation in this match. Regards, Kitty Kitty, It was a pleasure to meet you. Your attitude and smiling face on your stage did Area 7 proud. Wondering if my a$$ made it... is there an Area 7 facebook page? My wife and I will make the trip to NY next year. Thanks for all your great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grkmec Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Had a few thoughts for the unfortunate CT guy that got stopped by NY state trooper. Regardless if we follow the law, a cop can arrest you and make your life miserable. I also attended the Area 7 match and had a CT permit. I thought about what I would have done if I had been stopped in NY. Quite simply I would have flat out lied about where I was going, and if asked if there were guns in the car, I would have said no. As soon as you admit you have guns in the car, even legally, you give LEO probable cause to investigate and search your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revomodel10 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Where were all the vendors this year? Last year Target Barn, Glock and a few others were there... Years ago, at the Miller Invitational, the yard was full of vendors! Last year, 3-5 Now it is INTERNET No reason to travel for 200 +/- shooters......... the time & travel doesn't equal the sales & profit, I would bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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