Vlad Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 If you had to pick one of the ~$700 1911's out there, which one would you pick? The big two are Springfield and Kimber, but then you have Dan Wesson and a few more. If you had to pick one for all around game shooting (IPSC L10) and personal defence, and which you were going to have work done on later on, which of the many offerings do you think would hold up better to wear, smithing, and ease of maintainace (by which I mean aftermarket parts are likely to fit well)? Is there any real difference? Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Kimber Classic. It's cheap and very, very reliable. Plus it's a good platform for one to learn on as well as add on desirables as either needed, wanted or financially feasible. I picked one up for my father (going for the son of the millenium award) and he loves it. It became a little 'kit car' for him. First were simple mods: grips, screws, etc. Now, he's having me get more work done for him: checkering, polishing, sights, etc. It's a lot of fun that he has his own 1911 and when we go to the range now, we can plink with similar gear. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I'm happy with my Kimber, but I'm sure a Springfield would be just fine too. All I hear about Springfield suggests they're as good, and as good a deal as, the Kimbers Right now the only problem with my Kimber is that the adjustable rear sight is made of hardened steel, so I haven't been able to file the notch wider and deeper. It even broke the "bit" on a friend's milling machine when he tried to open it up. I called Kimber and they were unhelpful (no, they don't make blades with bigger notches, and they suggest you take a file to it). So if widening the rear sight is something you want to do, perhaps you should avoid a Kimber, or get a tool that can handle hardened steel. If you want a reliable and accurate 1911 with good "custom" features, get a Kimber and some CMC or Wilson magazines...or a Springfield, and some CMC or Wilson magazines. Good luck, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 A slight change from Rich.. I got a Custom Target, for < $700 - same basic gun, but it has adjustables, if you're so inclined, and you can change to Bo-Mars if you want without getting the slide milled - basically the same price for bboth, to get to a Bo-Mars rear Mine had some initial Extractor problems, after tuning, it's 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Vlad, I don't know the details of Kimbers new safety system --- sorta similar but also a bit different from the Colt Series 80 safeties --- but that might be an item to do some research on. I had one of the Kimbers a few years ago --- before the upgraded safety --- an Officers frame with a roughly Commander length slide on it, two-tone finish, low profile night sights, carry bevel package, and good checkering. It gobbled up all the ammo I could throw at it, and was every bit as accurate as my full size Colt --- which is an exceptionally accurate gun. Sadly the Kimber had to go when we decided to buy a house.... I own a loaded stainless Springfield Armory fullsize 1911 in 9mm. After a couple of thousand rounds and some polishing, the disconnector still drags a bit as the slide cycles. The biggest issue has been finding reliable 9mm mags.... I don't think you can go wrong with either a Springfield or an early Kimber ---- the later ones might be good too -- but I'd need to investigate the new Safety system. Sure we can't talk you ino trying perfection? That would be a fullsize Glock of course --- utterly reliable and dishwasher safe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Find a Gen I Kimber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I Springfield is as good as any other (1911) in this price range...and I've seen Robbie Leatham trying to carry more than he could hold to put on the prize table at the Nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard franklin Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 please take a look at the danwesson patriot expert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Nik, There is a difference between the Colt 80's series pistol and the Kimber. The Colt uses the trigger movement to move the firing pin block out of the way, where as the Kimber uses the grip safety to do the same... I think. Vlad, careful... sounds like Nik is trying to up some of his STglOCK options. Actually, you should really consider the STI in that price range. May be a tiny bit higher, but the customer service would be well worth it in my opinion. I've pestered them quite a bit and always a quick curtious response and they stand behing their product 100%. STI is usually at every major match. Plus, if you do get to shooting some big matches, they do have the contingency awards which is worth looking into. Also, I'm surprised you're not looking at one of the .45 CZ variants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 For $700, consider the Dan Wesson Patriot Expert. It's got a forged frame, is fitted well from the factory, and has an external extractor. I've been shooting this one since March 2003 in IPSC and 3Gun, about 10k rounds: (I replaced the factory long trigger with the short SV ITS trigger, and put different grip panels on. Otherwise, it's stock.) Reliability has been excellent. -z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Nik, actually I have nothing against Glocks, outside the fact the my wrists don't bend that way, which is the same reason why my Ruger MkII is only used to introduce new shooters. I like a more vertical grip. I have been eyeballing a G35 but I am not crazy about the unsupported chamber and then getting a grip reduction. Bucky, as much as I would love a CZ97B, try holding one. The thing is pretty huge, in a nice and comforting way, but a bit to much. And an STI Ranger would be nice but that would kinda stretch my budget. I like the way that Kimbers feel, they seem more svelt compared to the Springfields, but I have heard a number of people worry about the new safety and I did just see one go select fire set to burst. The Dan Wessons look almost to good to be true, yet all the owners of Patriots seem very happy. I am going to try to find one to feel up. No one has yet address the issue of how well any of them stand up to being send to EGW or somesuch. Do good gunsmiths prefer one over the other? Thank you all. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Best to directly ask the smith that will do the work...if they have a favorite, go with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTerry Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 How about a Para Ordnance? With a P16-40 you could play Limited as well as Limited 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Bucky, That was it --- the grip safety! I knew that once but forgot. Vlad, To sum up what some others are saying: Springfield is awfully good to the sport for what that's worth. I agree that the Springfield frame feels a bit blockier than the Colt's and Kimber's but I only notice that during handling time--- never during dry-fire, practice or match time. I realize that an STI might stretch your budget --- but if their single-stack is eligible for the contingency program, you could win a frame, parts, etc, to build a really nice wide body Limited or Open gun... It might be worth saving for..... As to the G35 --- I don't own a Glock .40 for that reason. If I bought one, I suspect that the first mod for me would be a Bar-Sto barrel. They did an awesome job on the longslide .45 top end I bought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 The more I shoot Kimbers, the more I like the Springfield Armory guns. The primary reason is the beavertail grip safety. For some reason, Kimber uses a grip safety that won't allow you to get a very high grip. Springfield uses an S&A part that allows you a nice, high grip. Another thing is that feature for feature, a Springfield gun is going to cost less (at least around here). That leaves you more money for the trigger job and any other modifications you choose to make. You can't really go wrong with either, so it boils down to a matter of personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I've owned a few Kimbers and still shoot my Springfield occasionally. If I had $700.00 to spend on a 1911, I'd wait and save another $300.00 and buy an STI Trojan. To bring either the Kimber or Springfield up to the level of fit, finish, and reliability of the Trojan you will definitely spend more than $1000 total. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I agree with that. For the money, the STI Trojan is the best single stack gun on the market. It's probably in the top few regardless of price. Plus, you can order it the way YOU want it. You don't have to accept the packages that Kimber or SA offer, then modify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Rhino, I really love my .45 Trojan. Unfortunately, inflation being what it is, entry level 1911s are now in the $450 to $700 range. The minimum that I would spend on a shooter and not a project gun is $1000. Even in the Paras, you will be much happier with a dawson tuned P14/16 at $1049. Factory Paras generally require quite a bit of tuning and cleaning up to be reliable enough for competition. In my opinion, the minimum price point for a competition ready 1911 is $1000. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwell Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I have a Kimber Custom II and it has run great so far (7000 Rounds). For $700, I would buy the Kimber Target because of the adjustable sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I have no religious preferences, but do get one that either has BoMars or has a BoMar cut. That way, you have all kinds of options for sights without having to go to a gunsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 get one that either has BoMars or has a BoMar cut. That way, you have all kinds of options for sights Unfortunately, all of those options are for other brands of break-prone adjustable sights. Water everywhere and not a drop to drink. I think you get more real sight options with a Novak cut. I don't think there are as many sights available for the Heinie cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I have a a SA 1911 and a Kimber Tactical ultra carry both shoot great and run with no problems. The Kimber has the new safety and external extractor and no problems with either. The Dan Wesson that I won back in 01 was a POS. I had my gunsmith look at it and his advise was to sell it to somebody that I hated. Unless their QC did a 180 and improved a hell of a lot I would avoid them and get either the SA or Kimber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 get one that either has BoMars or has a BoMar cut. That way, you have all kinds of options for sights Unfortunately, all of those options are for other brands of break-prone adjustable sights. Water everywhere and not a drop to drink. I think you get more real sight options with a Novak cut. I don't think there are as many sights available for the Heinie cut. I swear one of these days Erik.....you're going to be posting a sob story on here about how your fixed rears sheared off at the dovetail. -------------------- Go for the Bomar cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I just had Novak put a custom set of sights on my 1911. He started with his sight with no sight notch and cut it to .110. He put his front on and trimmed it to .090. The verdict isn't out yet, but I think I may like this better than my Bomars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaquina Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Springfield Armory guns are crap. Do not buy unless you want to spend a lot on fixing the problems you will have with it. Stay with a Kimber, best gun for the money. Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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