lwink

That gun will do it for sure! What trigger are you running? IS that still the factory 20" barrel? If so I've got 8" on you which sure helps a lot, and when you set up for 1,000 I'd go at least palma match bullets (155gr) and may be worth at least running ballistics if not experimenting with the 168 VLD's, SMK's, or Amax's depending which ones your gun likes. Good luck, love to see a picture of a 1,000 yard ding on a fresh black steel from that rig!

Welcome to the forum, as you already seem to know this is one of the best places on the web for help in all things shooting! Grew up in Nekoosa myself, just a hop skip and jump from you!

That's a solid rifle, and really not a bad velocity consistency at all, didn't mean to come across sounding like that. The load i was talking about is my standard for one of my 308 bench specific guns. Besides being totally tuned and having the chamber to cartridge fit as perfect as I can (matching chamber reamer and custom die set, bushing dies etc), I'm doing the following in my loading for this gun, some of which will help muzzle velocity spreads: Individually weighing and measuring match kings and trimming tips Match primers Weight sorted Lapua Brass with same # of firings, sized in match dies, neck turned and trimmed for more similar bullet release Uniformer primer pockets and flash holes for consistent ignition I do shoot Varget! That stuff is great for 308. If you have it give XBR a try too... If I didn't have 12 pounds of varget I may even switch to that Probably a bit more even but I've lost my train of thought. All that to say, depending on the type of shooting you're doing it's not necessary. If you want 1/4 MOA groups at 600 yards then you reload using time consuming methods, if you want to hit 10" plates at that distance it's a lot of wasted time! Get some big paper and shoot some groups from 100 out to 600 or 800 as you have room and see how they do!

Haha, well said!

If you are going to use it for more than just an occasional shooting rain I'd get something higher end than a precip. They are probably one of the better jackets you can get for under $75 more days than not, but they are pretty short lived, not all that water proof, and don't breathe much so you'll end up wet either way. Like I said, if it's a keep in the truck or bag for occasional use not bad at all, but if you are going to use it regularly I'd spend a bit more and get something that has a better membrane. I'd get a quality 3 layer fabric -- GoreTex pro shell, dry Q elite, eVent, or neoShell come to mind as top of the line fabrics that I've used. All of these really keep water out (like you're dry in a several inch downpour water out) and have eliminated the PU coating that most other waterproof membranes have (including other levels of GoreTex and all of the older versions of it) so they don't feel clammy or "wet" even in activity and warm rain. A higher quality jacket will also fit better and you'd be able to go through the stages of shooting without it riding up, even should be able to wear a hood with a bill and keep it in place for pretty active shooting activity.

Just wondering who out there has personal experience with tubbs flat wire AR buffer spring? Let me know pros or cons with your setup or if you are using something similar (supposedly quieter and better life/recoil reduction). FYI I'm running rifle length buffer tube and have looked at both this and the JP rifle tuned and polished spring. Mispost, mods please move to rifle technical (or springs). Thanks and sorry!

Depending on the BC of the actual bullet, you should have no problem ringing 600 with a decent gun -- sitting at 14 MOA drop and about 6 MOA with a full value 10mph wind. Just for reference, same calculations gives 800 yard drop of 24 minutes drop, which is 200+ inches and 8 3/4 (6 feet) of drift - possible? Absolutely... tough to consistently do? Definitely. Wait for a calm day I run 168's at about 100 fps slower and a little lower sd and 600 its a pop can gun most days (long as parallax allows) and still hold 1/4 MOA, 800 is pretty consistent for paper plates, 1000 gets tricky in not prime visibility and wind conditions.

I think it's a great idea -- sure it will be expensive and some may question why it's necessary, but why do non professional drivers buy a Ferrari, or any high end sports car? If they want it and enjoy it I say go for it!

I've thought about that, no problem finding the screw but I'm thinking then I'll have to drill out the new mag button and I could see that being more trouble than its worth. I will talk to Dawson, that's a good idea if nobody points me towards a nice looking 5-40.

I shot a lot with a 28" Nova pump gun for 10 years, and have recently moved up to 30" Rizzini. Went out for practice rounds with that gun I was so excited -- had an incredible light feel and just pointed automatically for me with the adjustable lop stock and comb I dialed in. Plus it looked great with those extended silver tubes. Emabarrassed myself with I don't even remember -- 16 or something like that. I had brought my nova just because I had never shot the Rizzini and I shot another round out of spite and got a 23 (think I missed my first bird or even 2 out of 5 because I was still mentally out of it from the last round). Long story short, a year later now I'm shooting fine and even better with the new gun. Love the feel an balance and swing of it, as well as how much better it fits, but the hold is different. Long story short, you can easily shoot great with any gun you take as long as you're used to it, but if you're like me and want nice gear tuned to exact discipline, then try a few but realize that every one will be just a bit different in how it shoots, so go for fit and feel (looks if that's important) and shoot it a lot. Nice thing is quality clay guns hold their value, and there are usually a few used ones for sale at different ranges and clubs. That's how I got mine, and honestly I'm glad I didn't shoot it before I bought it because I don't think I would've gotten it then, took several hundred rounds to settle in for me but I love it and don't regret it for a second. And to actually answer your question, if you're talking upland hunting in more or less open areas you could easily go 28 or 30" gun. Both would work for clays and other uses. And usually the field guns have a shorter barrel and like was said a less expensive stock/receiver finish sometimes. As far as the adjustable cheek -- throw one up, if it fits nice and feel natural great. If not, you won't regret spending a bit more and not having to constantly change your posture or aim to get the gun shooting where you want. Final thing to consider when picking a multipurpose gun: It would hurt me to take my trap gun into a rainy, dirty, area and set in the mud. The trigger would also be dangerous with big insulated gore tex glove. I do not hesitate to chip holes in the ice or paddle my canoe with my Nova.

I like the rem oil and apply pretty much after every day out on my pumps and most of my bolt guns. I like how light it is and doesn't seem to come off on my hands as much while shooting. Have used some others that, especially when mixed with sweat, have made it hard to feel good about my grip while standing on the line. Use heavier stuff on my pistols and autos. I also occasionally grease the bolt rails and pump slide rails with some shooters choice in a syringe.

Ha, just saw you're in Lexington, I'm also there this weekend! pm inbound

Any marks of interest on the base of the fired brass? Would be interesting to see what the primer looks like and if there are ejector marks. Post or send me a picture of that if you can. It is not an ejector problem I and doesn't sound like an extractor problem either. Could be a sizing die problem, that's usually where I've seen those marks before, especially on belted magnums. Have you tried sizing brass and then inserting it into chamber and closing/opening the bolt to see what the resistance is like? Be gentle and slow. If the brass once sized goes in and out easily it's probably not a gun or sizing issue. You may not be bumping the shoulder enough for the chamber or there may be the belted mag "donut" of brass around the base if this test is hard on freshly sized brass. Then load a full (or dummy I should probably say) round to the same lengths as the ones you have been using and see if there is any increased resistance to chambering a round or groove marks on the bullet upon extraction. The only times I've had the bolt open but stick was from loads that were borderline too hot for some reason, could be too much jam in the lands. Anything look strange or different about the bolt face or recoil lugs? Stupid Question Time: Your powders didn't get switched somehow right? Either by leaving something else in your hopper and putting this on top or getting other powder in this container or just a wrong pour - I've almost done all of this before. Once I was working on a rifle and somehow a piece of bedding material got into the chamber right around the shoulder area. My brass didn't chamber very smoothly and was always coming out with a dent and hard. I finally figured it on and after cleaning the chamber with a pick found the foreign object and problem solved.

So I didn't think that it would be quite this hard, but I got a tapped mag release from Dawson and couldn't decide whether to get the 4-40 or 5-40 screw, had them on the phone and asked and it seemed like it wouldn't really matter so I went 5-40 (bigger is better right). Turns out I haven't been able to find an in stock button with that thread. I know Dawson does make some, but any of you guys know of some other (reasonably priced) options that I could put on there? The only one I've seen on the parts sites I normally use have been 4-40 threads or more than a whole new mag catch with a button on it. Let me know what my options are. Thanks

Welcome Dan, what part of colorado are you in?

What I had to think about after just considering this same question is "What's best for me?" If you honestly are going to use the gun primarily for 3 gun and are a competitor then the 1-6 is hands down the way to go. If you are going to use the gun for primarily other things (like me) and just like the idea of a well tuned fast shooting ar I went 2.5-10. I enjoy longer range shooting too much to stay with 6x as my max, just personal preference. I'm sure there's lots of guys on here than can outshoot me on 10x with there 6x or 4x any day, but I know I can shoot better myself with higher magnification at those 400 - 600 yard targets I will enjoy engaging. IF you are honestly going to do both, go ahead and get 2 optics that stay mounted and with a quality system you should have little or no work to swap and maintain zeros. Get a 2.5-10 for long distance range days or even high magnification and get a true 1-? for 3 gun comps. For the price of either of those you could get a pretty decent set of both, like a PST 2.5-10 and a Burris or busnell elite 1-4/6. I understand if you like higher end glass though, there is definitely a difference between a night force and a PST or a burris and a Razor. In the end just be honest with yourself with your uses and what you want, there unfortunately is not perfect gun for everything you want to do with it, that's why we buy a lot of them!

Yes, the fact that you're getting good groups out of it early may point to some other issues. The easiest way is to find a friend or friendly smith with a bore scope and take a look at the throat of the chamber, that's the part that will go first in normal wear.

Depending how from scratch I'm starting -- on a new gun in a new caliber for me I'll start with bigger jumps looking for pressure signs -- oftentimes .7 or even 1.0 grains on some of the long action calibers. Once I establish an upper limit where I start seeing pressure signs I'll back down accordingly and will do .2 grain increments (usually 3 -5 different ones). I've also gotten in the habit of loading 4 of each so I can do 3 shot groups and if I pull one I'm still able to see a group. I felt I was using a lot of extra components when I always loaded 5 for each test load, but I also have a bench 20 feet from my door so It was easy to go back and forth if I really needed to. Basically by these two methods I'm trying to find the hottest possible accuracy node for that rifle, and all this comes with seating depth tests as well as that makes a big pressure difference. If I am starting with a caliber I'm familiar with (or has good proven data) like 6mm BR or something and have a known chamber cut and throat length I'll go ahead and start on someone else's foundation and use just a .2 or .3 grain step, and in my bench guns once I find the best spot I'll fill in the gaps with every .1 grain just so I make sure I've maxed out the accuracy. At that point though it can change a tenth or three every lot of powder and I don't think this forum is really a bench style reloading one.

I'm a bit in the other way as well. I had 5 or 6 plastic guns before my first metal frame, but wow did I like the feel of my first springfield full size 1911. So much so I've gotten a few more, and I know they have their disadvantages but even an AL frame 4" gun. Definitely prefer the feel to that over any plastic gun I've tried, but I still do carry mostly plastic frames (from XDS up to beretta PX4 full size) and like the fact that there's less weight, most have decent aftermarket support I can get good sights and triggers, and I don't worry about the metal frame deterioration from sweat and skin oils and moisture and maybe even (heaven forbid) a few days without cleaning.

I would be oiling the BCG and charging handle I assume, do you try and keep that oil out of the buffer tube and spring area? What cleaning/etc goes on around the gas block if any. I'm almost embarrassed to say I've never even shot an AR... forgive me if this is beyond beginner info but it seems like a lot of fouling would be in that system.

Steve RA- I assume that loading out to 2.260 doesn't cause feeding issues in your AR and that you've had good accuracy results reloading this way, right? Also, does loading out longer help with accuracy or does it increase case capacity? Both? Loading longer does increase case capacity and theoretically then you can put in more powder to burn, but it also takes more powder to make the same pressure. In a short barrel I doubt that this is really a point worth considering for too much time as you are blowing a lot of extra powder already. This would be more substantial if you had maxed out barrel length vs burn rate of your cartridge. More importantly it does affect accuracy. Some bullets like to be closer to the lands (rifling) while others prefer a small "jump" and others still are pretty tolerant of larger jumps. Can't say that longer is more accurate, or shorter is more accurate, its all about your particular bullet choice and chamber cut. Another point that should be stated is pressure increases when the bullet hits rifling as this causes resistance, so loading too long and jamming bullets in the lands must be done knowingly and with caution as not to exceed safe pressures. Finally, since this is an autoloader you must assess magazine fit and bullet feeding. If you load a 40gr vmax to the same length as a 62 or 75 grain hpbt you're asking for trouble. Either you haven't properly seated the small bullet and it may move when in the magazine or hitting the feed ramp, or you may have greatly overseated the longer heavy bullet thereby reducing the internal case volume and possibly setting yourself up for dangerous pressures. Remember, all these "overall lengths" of loaded cartridges are not all that important, but the base to ogive is actually what you have to be concerned about. If you want to measure your chamber properly (I think these other guys gave you great info on case sizing) you can buy a tool to do that and another to then measure bullets from base to ogive and you will always know how much jump or jam your bullets have. I doubt many jam in autoloaders, seems like a bad idea. I personally measure with a cleaning rod and caliper, which is not 100% accurate but I've verified within 2-3 thousandths of an inch. Insert a bullet (bullet only, not whole cartridge, vmax, Amax, or some polymer tip is best) into chamber and apply just enough pressure with a short pistol cleaning rod or unsharpened pencil so you know it has just touched the rifling. Don't jam it in. From muzzle end insert cleaning rod with blunt jag and make contact with the nose of the bullet. Mark cleaning rod at muzzle with fine pen or sharp edge of tape. remove rod carefully and bullet. Close chamber and bolt with firing pin retracted, measure from muzzle to contact with bolt face with the same rod and jag and mark again. Measure from mark to mark with calipers (these need to be super fine marks and consistent across the muzzle). This is your OAL to touching lands with THAT BULLET. I load that bullet then (either real or dummy) into sized brass and until I get the same OAL from base to bullet tip that I measured on cleaning rod. Use your ogive measuring tool to get the ogive length and now this number is the one you save and can use for all further loads with any bullets. You know this length is on the rifling, so if you want to experiment with jump try 5,10,15,30 thousandths off or whatever you'd like and see how accuracy is changed. Hope that made sense, otherwise pm me and I can try explaining more. This info is also taken from bolt guns, but the ballistics will apply, just not too familiar with feed issues you may incur.

Just ordered my first ever AR rifle (as I stated in a recent post) and I can't wait to get it. Should be completed and ready for pickup on Monday. I have really spent most of my time with precision bolt guns before this. I feel very good about barrel break in, cleaning, and lubing/maintenance of all of my bolt rifles but I'm totally unsure of how to break in and properly clean, lube and care for a semi automatic rifle like this. Give me your favorite tips, tricks, cleaners, and lubes to get it rolling from new and keeping it in good operational condition.

Incredible information for a new shooter! I have printed out all of these and will be starting to practice with more intention.

Definitely agree with competitively priced ammo. Rental guns and a small stock of guns for sale that come with free range time. Good big/even acoustically insulated dividers between lanes -- been to some where hot brass was all over me from the guy on my left and others when you step up to shoot its a lot of muzzle flash and blast coming across. If rifles are allowed its nice to have a front bench/workspace larger than 18" to put a decent rest (front and rear) on and provide a couple properly sized chairs/stools rather than a cheap folding chair that's 10" short (this describes last indoor range I went to for rifle work in the winter). I would imagine in your area even a 25 yard range could attract some hunters wanting to take a practice shot with the rifle. A couple places by me have hunting season specials just before rifle season and charge a 15 or 30 minute reduced rate or $10/gun site in fee.

I have heard the same thing from Delta on numbers, although I didn't know it varied from rifles/shotguns to pistols, but another airline (united or american is coming to mind) has told me its all about weight not limit, so if they are packaged properly in locked appropriate case you can bring 50 pounds worth (minus the weight of the case of course). I just did a search on this myself as I'm flying to a dove, pig, shooting range excursion in a couple weeks and was wondering what I would be bringing along. The other thing is having good pictures of the guns and serial numbers (if you don't already) for insurance purposes, and it may be worthwhile to see what the max liability the airline will assume is and what your insurance will cover (my homeowners is $5,000 I believe). Highly agree with the breaking down part, it not only lets them pack more efficiently but I think can help inexperienced airline attendants see they are safe and unloaded and not give as much hassle/take as much time.