spook

First of all a question: are you looking for a confirmation the mag went in, or the mag will go in? To me this is most important, because it determines the moment you'll be shifting your focus from the gun/mag/magwell/whatever back to the target. I'm looking for both. One after the other. First I need to know the magazine will go in, so I can continue with the reload. Otherwise this will happen: I don't focus, but just glace at the magwell. I don't know the mag will go in but continue with the reload anyway. Result is a missed reload. So knowing the mag will go in is the first stage on confirmation I need. This is basically where I know everything is lined up and the magazine will go in if I continue the movement. To get this confirmation I need to really see the magwell. And understand/realize how it is lined up and kind of visualize the mag going in. This sounds like a lot, but it is the only way I can explain the type of focus I need to see the magwell. Second, I need to know the magazine went in to know I get my focus back on the target. This feedback is visual and also by feel like you say here: Yes, I noticed that too and I think it's what Brian refers to in his book, where vision is one of the first things to deteriorate when enduring match stress. Also, I realize I started this thread because I want to have a "step by step guide" of doing a reload (specifically to go through the stuff that messes up my consistency right now). So I want no difference between dry fire and match or live fire reloads. I want to eliminate bad reloads (or bad everything to be exact ) When you know it didn't not go in. well, there's your tautology for today kids Then again, I see we're getting in the area where it hard (at least for me) to express what you sense and it's even harder to determine objective elements in those senses that apply to everyone. All comments are welcome though. I'm really enjoying thinking/discussing shooting on these forums again (even when is the part where the gun doesn't go bang;))

+1 I was going ot suggest the same thing. Great setup. CZ75 is one of the nicest 9mm pistols ever built and you can play a lot of games with it. The Kadet Conversion Unit will let het shoot .22 all day for cheap shooting.

I like Sherk too. Good guy, but I believe he used roids though. I have seen him train on SpikeTV and it was in-sane! Really superhuman. So it wouldn't surprize me if he used. BJ will hold the belt, even if he goes against Sherk.

Best looking Open gun I've seen in a long time. The other one was an iron sighted Open gun by Radical Precision. Iron sights and comps =

Wow, great replies here. I have given this a lot of thought since yesterday (despite the fact that I have a new PS3 and a 42" plasma to play with, so this must really be of interest to me ) I did some more reloads yesterday night. Like a lot of people say (thanks for slapping me in the head with that Luca ), to move the head or not makes a big difference. BTW, I think the whole head movement thing could be something I do because of all the revolver reloads where you move your head more. Another difference I thought of with my analogy to the draw is this: I thought of something we all have done once in our lives (and if you haven't try it right now). Close your eyes, and put your hands in the position where they're in front of you face (about 1 foot away) and your index fingers extended and pointing at eachother (about 1,5 feet apart). Now slowly move your fingers towards eachother, keeping your eyes closed, and try to make the tips of your fingers touch. Most of the times it wouldn't work. Moral of this little joke was that the coordination between the two halves of your body is pretty crappy when you can't see s*** A draw is different from a reload in that a.) you have a point of reference in touching the gun with you arm (thanks for pointing that out SingleStack) and b.) you have a movement with one arm and a fixed object (gun in holster), as opposed to two arms having to coordinate with eachoter. Now for the interesting part : What I noticed is that the moment to stop looking at the magwell is crucial to me to have a fluid transition back to the shooting. Like Brians says, if I look at a specific part of the magwell, I seem to nail the reloads. But once I know the mag is going in I immediately have to move my vision back to the target, then the sights. I feel this "knowing the mag went in" is the key to a perfect reload. Knowing the magazine went in is the "calling the shot" of reloading. I would like to steer the whole discussion towards this aspect of the reload, if possible: What is neccessary to know the magazine went in?

Whoops Double Tap

So far I haven't heard any argument that makes clear why we don't look at the gun during drawing, but look at the gun during reloading... Catfish, because someone else does something is never a reason for me to assume that is the best way. And yes, I think some would do something on purpose that would slow them down (naturally). If it leads to more consistent performance (which in the long run equals speed). With reloading, there is so much emphasis on how to get the fresh magazine in the gun. Almost never do I read about reaquiring the grip and getting back to the shooting. I feel that is one of the strong points of reloading without looking. I know drawing the gun without looking is (naturally) faster to me, because I don't have to shift my focus back to the target and then back to the sights. I feel the same way about reloading. Is it possible to be fast on the reload while looking at the gun? Sure, look at all the guys you mention. But I think those same guys could learn to look at their gun when drawing and be very fast (and gain some extra consistency at that ) See what I mean? I'm not here to win a "this technique is better than that technique". I just love to think and experiment with techniques and find this is one of the best place to get some refreshing input from guys who think alike Something just popped in my head re-reading Ong45's post. Is it possible the emphasis on looking at the magwell comes from reloading all those skinny 1911 mags into those narrow-ass 1911 magwells "back in the day"?

Gary, I'm sorry to hear we won't be hearing much from you anymore It's a shame because you're one of the guys I really enjoy reading posts from. OTOH, taking a break can be the best thing ever. Just a tip FWIW: I quit shooting (and I mean really quit) in 2006 close to two years ago. I had it with shooting back then. Truly didn't see myself come back ever. I shot my revolver 6 months ago and was disgusted with my performance and that just reinforced my decision. But the bug bit again (about 3 months ago I think) at the weirdest time I could imagine. Here's the tip: I would be careful about selling stuff that you could need again if you ever decide to take it up a notch again. I sold almost everything (except my Glock 17) and had to buy a lot of stuff again. It was an expensive two years off, despite the lack of shooting. BTW, what exactly proved the game is not for you yesterday? Good luck and I hope to still see you around here once in a while Take care, Bjorn

Thanks for the reply Luca, I like the analogy to the blind man who senses objects without seeing them. That just shows what the human body is capable of. That's also why I think that I should be able to never look at the gun during a reload. I mean, most people could look at their gun during the draw and snap back to the target in time to see the gun get on the target, but no-one does that (despite the fact that no one has a 100% consistent draw). I think the biggest problem with missing reloads when going by feel is tension. Not feeling fast enough, or trying to feel fast. When shooting sometimes there's tension and sometimes there's no tension. I think this causes the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario EricW discribes in his post.

You know, Bjorn, I have already told you you should move to Italy ... next league (2008) at least 14 matches (mixed Lev. II & III) where SS division will be recognized ... Oh man.... you're not making it any easier for me....

If they would have some cool shooting games plus a realistic wireless Glock 17 zapper, I might go duck hunting on that thing

Wish we would have the provisional 1911 division in Europe as well. There would be no doubt in my mind which divisions to shoot. Single Stacks are cool. And reloading is a skill that is cool to show off

DC, I have large hands too and also have difficulty with canting the left wrist/hand. I find consistency the most important about the grip. Gripping the gun is something I train extensively, because I never seem to find that perfect grip. There's always something that could be better. Maybe this is also the key to gripping the gun. Keep learning and practicing different ways. Have you tried making a custom grip with epoxy? I did that on and it helped tremendously.

Back from shopping with my girlfriend, which is also a lot easier if you don't look at the wallet... Some good stuff posted in the mean time What I read: CDRODA396: "Consistency will deteriorate. You have to look once in a while or the skill will deteriorate." That's what I think too. Well, I think you could/should look at the magwell during the (initial) development of your reload. I see looking at the magwell as "training wheels". And why not keep using the training wheels if they don't make your reload slower, less consistent. But that's exactly what I'm questioning here. I think looking is slower/less consistent to me. Flex, G-ManBart, SteveA:"When under pressure, tension makes feeling a reload in more difficult than looking it in." Cool, so practicing the reload without looking is also a great tension drill? shred & G-ManBart: About the "which way is faster" stuff. Consistency is what I'm primarily thinking about here. Maybe I should have never mentioned the speed and economy of motion thing, because I don't want to get into the "which is faster" part just yet. The consistency is what I noticed most of all, together with the lack of things going on. A very quiet, calm experience. SteveA: I have thought about whether this might be the Trick of the Day. I will just continue training this way for a month or so to find out. EricW: Awesome post. That completely describes how I feel when reloading. Seriously the whole "both options are a trap" nailed it for me. That's what it feels like. When I look and fumble the load I can feel like it is because I looked and there was too much going on so I should have gone by feel more. When I don't look and fumble it is because I didn't go by feel enough and was busy with other stuff and blame myself for not looking. Maybe the body needs to figure out whether or not it needs to look at the magwell. Food for thought. James: Yes I have tried not looking with revolver reloads. But the reload of the revolver is a lottle more "technical", IMHO. It sometimes worked and sometimes it didn't. But I found I was much more consistent when I knew how the chargeholes were alligned so I knew how to drop the moonclip. Also, a critical moment in reloadin a revolver is knowing when the clip is completely in the cylinder. This is key. As a shooter you have no control over this, because you drop the clip and let gravity do the work. Trying to close the gun without the clip being in, will make SHTF. So I always had to make sure the clip was in and quickest wat to do this is by looking. So short story: yes tried it, no didn't do it Locating the magwell should be easy. Maybe I should go by peripheral vision, like when you eat or put the tip of your finger on your nose (both are harder when your eyes are closed). More experimenting on the way I love this stuff

Wow thanks for the link. That's some interesting stuff. I love the way Fertitta has to help his "spokesman" out multiple times And still Dana cannot keep it clean... LOL @ "Fedor is a farce"

If it makes you feel better: it's illegal to own a blue gun over here, because our government thinks you could spray paint it black and use it to rob someone... A blue gun @ work sounds so good to me

I already hate dropping a magazine on my foot during practice without one of those on it...

I'm in that situation 5 days a week. Rather be shooting. I can't bring a gun to wok for dryfiring Best I can come up with is write down training programs and develop drills I can practice at home... Sucks dunnit?

Ah, but I am not saying that you cannot make good reloads while looking at the gun (look at Jake for instance). But I compare this to looking at the target or the sights while shooting. You look at the gun (sights) and you get a nice reload. I don't look at the gun (compare to a target focus while shooting), but that doesn't mean I am not aware of the reload. I feel the exact location of the gun and the magazine and I even pause slightly before the two meet. I am very aware, just not visually. Like when you draw the gun. Not looking at the gun AND not feeling the reload (not being aware of anything) resembles what Brian refers to "blasting at brown" where you don't look at the target or the sights. Another advantage I immediately noticed is that you don't have to put the gun in between your face and the target (like you say and most do). I can make the reload a little lower and have a perfect look at where my next shot will go. Plus the mag is in sooner (lower reload means I reload closer to where the magazine is on the belt).

I'm pretty excited about this hence the fast reply mjbine, the only "advantage" I saw in reloading while looking at the gun was consistency (getting sloppy while not looking). But I got to thinking: why would it be any sloppier than not looking at the gun while drawing? Most shooters seem to do pretty well that way Also, I feel the focus going everywhere when looking @ the gun will lead to less consistency (especially when reloading on the move, when you have to locate the target, look at the gun and look where you're going). There's so much going on... TT and Jake's reloads are awesome (just letting you know that what I'm about to say is in no way or form meant to take anything away from them), but those clips do not show the consistency of the reload or what they see when they mount the gun again.

Practicing reloads with the Glock 17 for IPSC Production tonight (girlfriend not home yet, my favorite time to practice). I wanted to see if I had any wasted motion, so I looked in the mirror to see. I noticed that all 10 or so reloads I did while looking at myself in the mirror instead of the gun, were spot on. Then I started practicing reloads while just looking at the target(s). Same thing, consistency all the way. When I switched back to looking at the gun, my reloads were less consistent. I have two thoughts about this: 1) A reload is a very simple movement. It is just as simple as drawing the gun. we don't look at the gun while drawing it so why look during a reload? 2) When looking at the gun during reloading, my focus was shifting around a lot. Sights, to magwell, to target, to sights. When not looking, it felt so much calmer. Sights, target, wait until the magazine is in and back to the sights like when you draw the gun. Thoughts?

+1 If I didnt shoot IPSC instead of USPSA (10 rounds) I would have bought it. Sweet little gun. Nice low bore and very short trigger.

If you buy the gun you like better, you will practice with it more. It is just that simple. Sometimes I think people shouldn't even consider all the technical advantages of different guns, but just buy the one they think is the coolest, seriously It's better to have a good gun and practice than to have a perfect gun and not practice.

Looks like his trigger finger is too little... I have had the same problem with my revolver. First shot was dead center and the next one would be low (instead of left). Reason was I took my timing for granted and pulled the trigger while compensating for recoil. Remedy: what Flex said. Make two identical shots, instead of one well aimed shot and a trigger pull while trying to keep your sights on the target. Hope this helps

I am very curious to what others have to say about this. I have the Ameriglo Fixed Target sights on my Glock 17. I fell in love with the sight picture the moment I handled a G17 with them on it. I ditched my Dawson Adjustables and ordered the Ameriglos. Sight picture is very very nice, but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't have too much light around the front sight. Keep in mind that you will have them on a G34, making the front sight even smaller. Front sight is .090" Rear notch is .150" For the record, the Sevigny/Warren sights have a .115 front and a .150 notch.