Chuck Anderson

"The only thing neccessary for the triumph of evil-Is for good men to do nothing" Everyone who has knowledge of this study should read it. And pass it on to other shooting buddies. Then compose a lucid, fact based positive response and mail it to them (do not bother with an e-mail). If they get several thousand letters to open and dispose of, it may not change their mind this time, but they will take notice. But do not do nothing.....you then have no one to blame but yourself. I might have missed it in my reading. Was there an address and someone to send comments to? Can we post that here to make it a bit easier on the slackers like me?

I actually have all the gear, for all the different variations of the rules. I started getting set up with my G21 right about the time Superstition changed the rules so that my cheater G21 wouldn't be legal but the 3000.00 single stack would be. Even with all that, I have all the stuff to shoot Heavy Metal, Heavy Optics, He-Man, whatever. I enjoy shooting a pump shotgun, (870 is one of my favorite platforms) And I've even got a bunch of .308 stacked up on the garage. For me my reasons are a bit different. I don't shoot it at matches I have to travel to because I can't make the 50 pound weight limit for luggage with the heavier rifle. And I don't feel like paying an extra $100.00 bucks to the airlines. I did shoot Heavy Optics at the R&R NW Multi Gun last year and did ok despite forgetting to shoot a whole bank of targets. I'll probably shoot that division again at some point, it was fun. I guess it comes down to two big reasons for me. First, I want to compete against the best. I'm not saying that Pat Kelley, Barry Dueck and a few others arent great shooters, but they don't go to every match and shooting against a field of maybe 10 guys just doesn't do much for me. I don't want to come home from the match, have guys ask me how I did and say, "Great, I came in 2nd! How many shooters...4" The other reason is...well I'll just leave that one blank since this is a family friendly forum.

That 3.5-25x looked like it should be mounted under an M-4 launching 40mm grenades. The tube diameter is huge. Scope seemed awesome for long range shooting though. 3.5 on the low end for scanning and more than enough power to hit past 1800 yards. Optics looked great as well.

I've run .11 splits on a stock AR before. The gun should be capable of that and more. An M-16 runs about 750 RPM, or about 12.5 rounds per second. Mechanically it's capable of sub .10 splits out of the box. Just depends on how quick your trigger can run. That said, there are a lot of things you can do to make the gun more shootable. A tunable gas system and lighter carrier are the two I start with. Add a trigger in and I can out run a Limcat with my AR.

Robbie Johnson was running one at the Ft. Benning 3-Gun. The threads supposedly (according to the Remington Rep at the SHOT Show) use the same threads as the Remington 870/1100/1187 so any tube for those guns should work. The safety seems like a decent size already. The bolt release is the same size and location as on the Benelli so that part should be the same. Charging handle I'm not sure on, but other than that it should be easy to set up for competition. I really liked the look of Robbie's shotgun. Very similar to the Benelli but with the addition of two little pistons under the barrel for some gas assist. I'm really looking forward to shooting this one.

I believe the dates are March 25-27, 2011 but I could be a day off.

Nope not a Saiga Killer. Feels like an 11-87 with a mag in a cheap plastic outer shell. They showed that last year and still haven't done anything with it.

The reason for creating the Steel Nationals was to give shooters on the other side of the country a major steel shooting venue. 2011 Steel Nationals Titusville, FL Steel Challenge Piru, CA 2012 Steel Challenge Frostproof, FL. Steel Nationals??? No venue has been set yet for the 2012 Steel Nats. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the west or at least in the middle. Just give things a bit of time to shake out. The world is not ending, the sky is not falling

Not one sponsored by USPSA. There are only five teams USPSA supports that way. However if you and three other Senior Open shooters want to form a team, just let the president know. He normally will approve it. Keep in mind the US can only send one team per Category/Division.

Cool, Doug, do you know if that works with Robbie's Shottys? Any issue with the charging handle. The shell stop was the one concern I had. I've seen a couple stop gap methods but nothing that worked 100%.

Yeah, but it's not just about running. At some point you need to be able to hit a slug target. Not just run an Xrail dry. Ok dude. I am ready for the throw down. I can unload the chamber of my xrail M2 and insert slugs or buck at will and feed the tube so the next on or two or three are as well. Explain to the boys and girls how you do that with the shotgun from the evil empire. Well I think Jim explained that fairly nicely. Actually what I was referring to was the slug stage at the Pan Am. The one with, if it was explained to me properly, 7 Larue targets to be engaged with slug? The point I was making is that the Saiga is not just quick to load, but can make the hits quickly and very easily. I know at the Ironman there were a number of steel slug targets at 50 ish yards that you needed to double tap. I was hitting the second round on target about the time my first hull was hitting the dirt.

Beretta 92 from Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. Smith 629 6" from Sledgehammer (TV) Springfield 1911 .45 comped from Punisher and Nash Bridges Had a Mini 14 for a little while from A-Team Working on putting together the M4 Christian Bale used in Terminator Salvation 10.5" M-16 from Heat

No but that's what Open is for.

My ghetto-blaster spray painted, dremelled on, rusted out POS Saiga let me win trooper at Ironman 2 years in a row. The first time was without a drum, because they didn't exist at the time. Maybe just no one else better was there those years?...good possibility My expensive race gun saiga I used last year had constant malfunctions related to the magazines and cost me at least 120 seconds in penalties from missed flying clays not counting the extra time racking the bolt on the stage. It worked fine down here in phoenix, but decided to shit itself when I got up to Idaho. I blame myself, if I had used it for more than 3 months prior to the match I probably would have identified those problems before hand and went with my spray painted POS with the rear trunion almost beaten out of it. I do think you would have beaten me anyway this past year because you're simply a better shooter. I'll be using a standard rock and lock saiga this year, with a drum because I know it works and I don't think that 3 extra seconds per reload matters much on stages that involve so much other stuff. I'm also bringing my Benelli with me in case the range-demons decide to curse me and cause my Saiga to explode or get sucked into an interdimensional portal (like in Army of Darkness). With my luck I'm pretty sure one of the two would happen if I don't bring the Benelli...if I bring it I'll be cursing the extra weight and never need to use it. ugh...when is someone going to make something better than the Saiga??? I want something I don't need to throw in the trash every 10,000 rounds or constantly clean up the metal that is peening over because its made from recycled refrigerators and stoves by people eating rats and cigarettes in Siberia that have vodka in the water cooler. That's the problem I have with spending more than $1,000 on these things total. Even if someone made a US made Saiga with proper metallurgy, it would be a better gun. Anyway the only place I see a mag well being a distinct advantage is on stages with minimal movement that are select load or require more than 30 rounds (one rock and lock change is roughly equivalent to 2 mag well reloads). Sorry if my rant is a bit extreme. These threads are like hearing guys talk about how hot/awesome your ex-girlfriend is that actually cheated on you with your best friend. No problem on the rant. I wonder how many full custom Saigas were at the Ironman in 2008 and 2009. I know the gun that I have now doesn't look anything like the guns I saw from any smith 2 years ago. If it hadn't been for the full custom Saiga I used last year you would have beat me like a rented mule. It was the only gun that ran almost 100 % for me at that match. And the only baubles it had were running buckshot, which I knew didn't run the gun well, but I didn't have time to swap to a different load. I'm actually okay with this thing only lasting 10K rounds. If I run it like my normal guages that will last at least 5 years for me. Although I probably will shoot it a bit more, just because it's a blast. I'm 2 for 3 on Saigas that run from Robbie. The one in the middle wouldn't run at all for me, but I have a suspision it was more magazine/ammo related than the gun. The current one does the same thing with the same ammo. But it chews up everything else from 2 3/4 dram 1 oz to 3 1/4 dram 1 1/8 oz. Tried it with Rio, Fiocchi, Remington Gun Club, Centurion, Winchester and Federal. Ran everything except the Win AA's that every other gun I have loves. Oh well, I guess my ammo bill just got cheaper. Do you have to put thousands of bucks into a Saiga to make it through a match, nope. But I can make it through the Ironman with my Stevens 311A also. Doesn't mean I'm gonna try. Can the gun be substantially improved by that investment, my experience you bet. Can the wrong smith F it up? Yep, just like any other gun. That's the bottom line for me. If you're going to allow them in tactical what do you allow for mods? Anything but an optic and a comp? If so, the argument that it's a $400.00 gun is kind of invalid. It won't be people, many anyway, competing with that box stock Saiga. Now it's $2000.00 custom Tactial Saigas along with everything else. We'd end up having to bring in Production 3-Gun and I just don't see that happening.

Yeah, but it's not just about running. At some point you need to be able to hit a slug target. Not just run an Xrail dry.

I think the mag well is a huge issue. I can reload my R&R saiga much faster than I ever could when the gun was stock. That is not dubious value to me. I agree if you want a Saiga to be race ready get ready to lay down some serious cash. Pat I disagree. Without the magazine well, you can run the MD Arms 20-round drum. For most 3-gun stages, 20 rounds of birdshot will be sufficient to avoid a reload entirely. Sure, you will lose some time on stages over 20 rounds, and potentially on stages requiring an ammo change (mixed slug/birdshot), but I think this "problem" is overstated. I maintain that a super-expensive custom gunsmithed gun is not the only option worth considering, and that in fact a perfectly serviceable and competitive Saiga 12 can be built for a lot less than the price of a stock Benelli. So you would allow 20 round drum mags in Tactical as well? Or only Open. Sounds like we're arguing a couple different points here. Should Saigas be allowed in Tactical? Do Saigas have a notable advantage over anything else in the Division already? How much do you need to do to a Saiga to be competetive? In what Division? Are we limiting this to IMGA Open or USPSA Open or everything? Bone stock Saigas have always really depressed me. I remember buying my first one for under $300.00. Never malfunctioned, ran awesome. Better than my $1000+ custom 3-Gun shotguns. I hated to get rid of that gun. Now I have a brand new R and R Targets Saiga. Tell you what, you bring your Saiga with the drum mag, I'll bring my Saiga with a mag well and a truly stupid amount of money thrown at it. We'll see who comes out on top. Most people who say you don't need a magwell, or to spend a bunch of money on a Saiga, haven't shot a really nice one. Believe me, there's a difference. My $.02. I don't see any reason to allow Saigas in Tactical. None at all. Yes the guns cheap. Fine, run it in Open. There's nothing that says your open guns have to be really expensive. It's clearly a step apart from Tactical SG's and uses box magazines, which, any way you define them are speedloaders. We have threads all the time where people bemoan that there really isn't a difference between Open and Tactical Ops. This would just make it closer. Concerned about the additional expense of making your other guns, Open? Buy a 170mm mag for your Tac Ops gun, and maybe a side red dot if you really want to. There you go, you're an Open competitor.

Heavy Metal, you non-trooper wuss!!

I'm one of those 40 but I'm a bit confused. I received my confirmation letter. It had a shooting schedule in it that says I shoot Tuesday 5/25/10 through Thursday 5/27/10. Obviously the year is off and I'm guessing the days. It also is only for my open gun, not open and metallic. Was this sent by mistake? Also it has me listed as competitor 85, which is my number from last year. Does that stay the same or change year to year (except Doug and Bruce) based on when you register?

Lots of matches start you prone with a rifle or on a roof with a rifle or prone, behind a SAW (FB3G!!!) with a holstered pistol. Some are loaded all the way, some mag in chamber empty, some loaded all the way up. You need to read the rules and listen to the brief before each stage. I would buy my equipment knowing that at some point I'll be laying in the dirt with a pistol holstered on my hip. Also, I got my new duty gun with a 6377 for a duty (plainclothes) holster. I doubt this thing is any slower than my Blade Tech DOH. It's fast. Very easy to learn how to use also. I qualified without practicing with the gun or the holster. No bobbles on the draw and very fast draws. All my Serpa's are going bye-bye.

Henning Wallgren, a former professional practical shooter? Did you give up on us Henning?

My first major match was the 2001 Area 1 in Marysville, WA. I had some issues with my press at home and loaded on a buddy's. Ended up coming in barely major, like 165.1 range. I was "randomly" drawn three additional times during the match for retest. Made major each time, but left me with a very bad taste in my mouth for the match and for that range. The only people that were "randomly" drawn during the match to go a second time were those competitors that were close to the PF floor. Made it really obvious what they were doing.

For those of you that are Class 3 afficionados, there's another event going on in Vegas that overlaps a bit with our Nationals. Might be able to get both in. http://smallarmsreview.com/SARCON_11.html Not much information up yet. Just enough to make me drool.

FWIW, I shot a Dawson Adjustable in Production last year and I believe Randi Rogers did as well. Not sure about other but there were at least two of us.

Waitlist went live at the end of June last year for dates in Mid October. With the match occurring Mid September this year my best guess would be sometime around the end of May, plus or minus a couple weeks. There will be an announcement well ahead of time.

I think it has more to do with availability of magwells, existing guns, and necessity. There is no need for a widebody and a lot of the gun have been built for awhile, or are replacing guns that have been around for a while. A well built 2011 is just as accurate as a well built 1911.