Majja

Is major falling out of favor in Limited

408 posts in this topic

Just curious what you all think.  Is Major starting to fall out of favor  for limited?  Will minor take over due to higher capacity of mags and the popularity of many of the new factory built pistols.  Not to mention that 40 S&W is loosing favor with many LEO agencies.  After all i just have to shoot faster and more A's correct ... :P

 

Matt

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No.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Trolling fail.

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Sorry I am not trolling.  I really see a lot fewer people shooting 40 in my local club matches.  Just kind of seeing what others are seeing in their area.

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2 minutes ago, Majja said:

Sorry I am not trolling.  I really see a lot fewer people shooting 40 in my local club matches.  Just kind of seeing what others are seeing in their area.

 

i see occasional noobs shoot 9mm because that's what they have. I see occasional 3-gunners shooting minor when there is a uspsa match that is convenient. I see pretty much every serious limited competitor shooting major. at 2016 nats, the first minor shooter was in 63rd place, 2nd minor shooter in 83rd.

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Absolutely not ever.

Not one person in the top 60 shooting minor at nats.

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What@motosapiens said. Some guys can hold their own shooting limited minor but I've yet to see anyone shooting minor win a level 2 or higher match...

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Thank you for the info.

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There is just too great a penalty for shooting minor - can't make it up with speed

or accuracy - the Best Shooters are shooting their .40's just as fast and accurately

as they would shoot a 9mm Minor.    :) 

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When will the next big power factor drop be.  I mean at one point and time the PF was 185, then dropped to 175 and now is 165.  When do we go to 155 and make it legal to shoot 9mm as major?

 

Look at the pattern of the life of the sport.  This sport was once dominated by 1911/2011's now there are many good guns that are not on these platforms, although most of the top shooters are probably still 2011's.  

 

Granted I quite shooting in 2001 and just started back.  A lot has changed, I see some things have and some have not.  I would not be surprised in the next 10 years that you see major and minor drop off.  I have a few friends that are starting to shoot and they get mind blown on well should I shoot X division or not.  My response is, you are new shoot what you have and have some fun for now.  Then decide if you want to play in open or Limited, SS, production, PCC act.    

 

I do not see it happening but then again when I started the 45 ACP was the King and 40's were a just starting out.  Now the 40 is king and the 45 is well almost been put out to pasture.  Do not flame me to hard this is just observation.  I like to ask the hard questions some times to encourage a little honest debate.       

 

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There is no need to adjust power factor.  Properly built guns are handling current major PF rounds just fine and for a long time.  Major provides enough additional recoil management challenge to make it "worth" having some premium over minor, but not so much it's tearing up guns or shooters on the regular.  

 

Other than some relative noobs crying that 9mm can't be major in Limited, I don't hear any clamor for changes to the caliber rules.  

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20 hours ago, Majja said:

When will the next big power factor drop be.  I mean at one point and time the PF was 185, then dropped to 175 and now is 165.  When do we go to 155 and make it legal to shoot 9mm as major?

 

 

I've been in the sport over 24 years now and the highest I've seen the PF (or even seen it in OLD rule books ... >25 years old) was 175.  I have no idea where you got the 185 figure.

 

Personally, I think it was idiotic to drop it from 175 ... Drop it further and we might as well do away with PF requirements all together.  The PF rules aren't broken ... Let's not break them by trying to appease the minority who think 9mm should score Major.

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You're lookign at it backwards. It's not that the A's are worth the same, it is that all the other hits aren't. It's those 20 or so C hits you shoot during the course of the match that kill ya.

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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 2:07 PM, Majja said:

Just curious what you all think.  Is Major starting to fall out of favor  for limited?  Will minor take over due to higher capacity of mags and the popularity of many of the new factory built pistols.  Not to mention that 40 S&W is loosing favor with many LEO agencies.  After all i just have to shoot faster and more A's correct ... :P

 

Matt

I wish it would! its the biggest turn-off to the sport. major power factor is a complete joke.

 

 

its like giving participation trophies..just completely wrong. if you cannot handle your 40 well enough to hit A zones, you need to pack up and go home or switch to something you can handle instead of punishing shooters of the most common handgun round in the world.

 

 

 

the bench

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If you did that then every division would be a 9mm only division. 

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5 minutes ago, waktasz said:

If you did that then every division would be a 9mm only division. 

and the problem is?

 

there is not a single reason to have a major power factor except for people crying about how the 40 and 45 have too much recoil a long time ago....its a joke to the sport and a huge turn-off to potential sport participants.

 

the only reason I am even returning to USPSA is for carry optics...and the second it becomes a power factor division I am gone...

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Is it though?

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1 minute ago, waktasz said:

Is it though?

yup...its damn sure not rewarding the best shooters....which I thought was the point of the game..

 

the bench

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, benchmstr said:

yup...its damn sure not rewarding the best shooters....which I thought was the point of the game..

 

the bench

 

How so? The top shooters, shoot Major in Limited. So who is this mythical "best" shooter, who's shooting minor and loosing? Why hasn't he switched to Major so he can win?

 

Just because someone wins your local match with less A's then you doesn't mean the system is broken.

Edited by Racinready300ex

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2 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

How so? The top shooters, shoot Major in Limited. So who is this mythical "best" shooter, who's shooting minor and loosing? Why hasn't he switched to Major so he can win?

 

Just because someone wins your local match with less A's then you doesn't mean the system is broken.

believe whatever you want...but power factor is holding the uspsa back.

 

of course they conformed to major! what choice do you have? the reasoning behind major is even a joke "bigger holes means bleed out faster" if its so practical then why have major in open division? please tell me how all these open division handguns that cant even be traditionally holstered are practical?

 

its a complete joke...and it always will be....it just happens to be accepted by most.

 

the bench

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But what's a joke about it? That you get a full extra point for a charlie, but you don't think it's any harder to shoot Major? Or that your M&P isn't competitive in Limited division?

 

Why you so mad, bro?

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So is the big problem with USPSA major, or open division? More recoil is harder to shoot so you get more points, makes sense to me.

 

If we drop major what should a C be worth? 4 points so you can hose like the Major guys that beat you? Open is dumb, but CO is cool? Seems legit.

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OK, I'm not trying to fall into a trap here but I do have a question......

 

For guys like Max or Vogel or others at the top who shoot Lim and Prod and are some of the guys setting our HHF for classifiers if .40 major is harder to shoot well than 9 minor then why are the times required for equivalent percent scores of a classifier faster in Lim than Prod?

 

For those with both a Prod and Lim set up are you really slower with a gun shooting major? I'm no super star but for me, my times and hits are almost identical between my Prod gun and my Lim gun. The difference in matches comes down to the effect of capacity and how it effects shooting a stage.

 

Is it harder to shoot a Bill drill, 4 aces, El Pres or any other standard drill with a gun shooting major than minor? It doesn't seem like it, and those guys are often faster.

 

Power factor does have a bearing on your score, without doubt. But does it really effect your shooting and stage times to the point that equals the point differential it currently enjoys?

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rowdyb ... Here is some part of the difference in times between Ltd (and L10, for that matter) and PD:  Reloads tend to be a little faster for Ltd due to differences in where one can place the mag holders and the MUCH larger target in the bottom of the gun to insert the mag as opposed to PD.  It may not seem like much, but it does add up.

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