ES13Raven

Support index finger in front of trigger guard?

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This has been a great thread! As a new shooter to USPSA coming more from a bullseye type shooting , grip is killing me.

 

My first match I was 15th out of 28 after some trigger trouble. But my score for points was near the top.

 

On the classifier " take your choice", my first shot on each target was an A. Next was a C out the bottom of the A.

 

The dip is killing me when I shoot fast. Shooting g an XDM 5.25.  This thread gives me some ideas to try on grip. 

 

Vogel has some points I want to try, but

Yong's video make a lot of sense to me.

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55 minutes ago, Broncman said:

This has been a great thread! As a new shooter to USPSA coming more from a bullseye type shooting , grip is killing me.

 

My first match I was 15th out of 28 after some trigger trouble. But my score for points was near the top.

 

On the classifier " take your choice", my first shot on each target was an A. Next was a C out the bottom of the A.

 

The dip is killing me when I shoot fast. Shooting g an XDM 5.25.  This thread gives me some ideas to try on grip. 

 

Vogel has some points I want to try, but

Yong's video make a lot of sense to me.

What weight recoil spring are you running? If your first shot was right on target and all follow ups were low, I'd guess you have too heavy of a recoil spring in the gun rather than an ineffective grip. 

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Running the stock spring. 18 I believe. In these pistols, by the time you add a base, a sight and slide racker you have added a lot of mass! ( Carry open)

Just ordered a 14 and 16 from Springer.

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Got to shoot some today. Waiting on the recoil spring. I experimented with grip and the forefinger in front of the guard , it was horrible. But, watched Yong's video and Vogel and ended up with this for the left hand.

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toxicar/media/IMG_20170219_185323522.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/toxicar/IMG_20170219_185323522.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

 

Got room for both fingers on the bottom of guard.

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toxicar/media/IMG_20170219_185323522.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/toxicar/IMG_20170219_185323522.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

 

Using the takedown lever as a grip to squeeze towards the guard . Inward pressure with both thumbs as well as explained by Yong.

 

Results were awesome! Doubletaps at 7 yards are small groups and dot stays put! I do put A LOT of pressure with grip.

 

Thanks for those video's. They helped me tremendously.

Edited by Broncman
Spelling.

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Posted (edited)

I did this pretty exclusively for two years. It worked with M&P's, but it wasn't translatable to other guns as well, and I found I would get too far forward because there was no good point of reference. To me, it allowed me to control recoil better by being closer to the muzzle, I kept the flip down, but had to use a tighter strong hand grip to make up for the support going forward.

 

However, keeping my hands together tightly at the rear of the grip (thumbs pressed together) helped just as much (with support hand index finger at the low southwest spot of the trigger guard instead of due west and touching the frame), with two advantages besides not being gun dependent.

 

1) It doesn't devolve into a crap grip if you're not focusing on it, and

 

2) it put more tension on my trigger hand around the grip without sacrificing the free movement needed for the trigger press. 

 

Number 2 is most important. Using your support hand as the clamp around the grip lets you dedicate your trigger hand to working the trigger, but it still provides good support, you're just not tensing the muscles in that hand to get it. 

 

Think of it like a c-clamp. One side is fixed and the other provides the tension and allows you leverage vs a spring clamp where both sides push together.

Edited by daytona955i

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Good stuff. I just picked up an M&p and my finger keeps moving there naturally on draw. It's a grip I use to use target shooting few years back. I've been trying to break it but I guess now maybe I will just go with it. Probably the grip on the mp, size or angle that is causing me to draw like that. Idk whatever words and stuff

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Posted (edited)

I'm new to the USPSA scene and much of this conversation is of use to me.

I have medium to large hands and my instinctive grip on my HK VP9 is around the trigger guard.  The gun is certainly made to grip it that way.

After my first match and having lots of people recommend that I grip below the trigger guard, I gave it a try.

It is NOT as comfortable, but I can absolutely control the recoil better.  I (when I remember) squeeze the snot out of the gun and I can not squeeze as hard when my finger is on the guard.  I also think my wrist is not tilted as far down and has less resistance.  For me is was clear even before I took the first shot.  I had my friend push up on the barrel and I resisted the motion.  Not even close.  It FEELS like I should be stronger with that grip, but the holes in the target don't lie.  I personally can shoot faster with my hand in the less comfortable under the guard position. 

Oddly I have no such instinct to grab my 2011 around the guard, it doesn't feel right on that gun.  The trigger feels too close and the guard too far away.

Shoot both ways and see what works best with your hands and your guns.

Edited by Stealsack

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I shot with an M&P for a while with my finger in front of the trigger guard, and carried that over to my 2011. I was given some advice the other day from a shooter who is far better than me to not do this. His tip was to put the whole weak hand on the grip. If you were to put your palm only on the grip over your strong hand fingers and keep your weak hand fingers straight, they should be pointing at about a 45* angle down. Wrap them around and squeeze hard.

 

That was his advice, I'm working on it but haven't had time to practice it live fire.

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On 6/5/2014 at 11:41 AM, nitrohuck said:

There is a reason I have stippled the front of my XDm trigger guard :)

I prefer it, personally, and feel like that index finger is just another helper when it comes to mitigating recoil.

In the beginning I had to actively remember to put my finger there when drawing... after awhile it became natural, YMMV

 

I saw that for the first time last week and really liked it. Feels different, but I agree that it seems to help with the recoil and helps keep the sights on target more. I'm certainly going to keep trying it and see how it works on all my guns.

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I've noticed in dry fire recently that my finger tends to go in front of the guard on my g19. I always though that was wrong. 

 

Guess I'll play with it some and see how it actually works for shooting. 

 

Caleb

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I don't think I have much to add to this discussion, because muzzle flip and dip is really hurting my scores right now.  I am a work in progress.... 

 

However, I DO want to say that I enjoyed reading EVERY WORD of this thread, and it has given me several things to "try on for size".  I feel that I am certain to find improvements in my grip, simply because I read this thread, and I am very grateful to those who contributed to it! 

 

THANK YOU! 

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