New Projects Starting This Week..

[sinnsyk]

So I've returned from the Shot Show and I have many new products in the works. I'm working with three separate machine shops which spreads out the time involved getting them all done. Should mean we'll get all or many of them available very soon:

Hammer & Sear

We're working on drawings for these hammers that will be EDM'ed and then Milled. Intention is close-to drop-in match trigger pull with full firing pin safety engagement and double/single action capability. Made from tool steel and hardened so the trigger job will last. If we can get the drawing made up, I will see some prototypes very soon.

Magazine well

A slide-on magazine well is in the works and we will work on this design Tuesday and Wednesday. It will be big, but still fit the IPSC standard box.

Magazine Release

A magrelease with button alternatives is ready to go on shortly. I'm finalizing my drawings and having them turned so that we can have the final Mill work done right after or during working on the magazine wells. It will hopefully have adjustable magrelease tension built into it as well thanks to Charlie's (CHA-LEE) clever idea.

Extractor

A beefier, better material extractor will be made available soon. This is right after hammer & sear project.

Firing Pin Stop

A firing pin stop that slows down the slide is on the agenda and pre-design work has been done.

Those are the main projects at the moment. I will look into optimizing the trigger bar/plunger parts as well so we may see more parts coming out before the shooting season really starts (that's when the snow has melted for me.. ;-))

[ks-shooter]

Magazine well

A slide-on magazine well is in the works and we will work on this design Tuesday and Wednesday. It will be big, but still fit the IPSC standard box.

Magazine Release

A magrelease with button alternatives is ready to go on shortly. I'm finalizing my drawings and having them turned so that we can have the final Mill work done right after or during working on the magazine wells. It will hopefully have adjustable magrelease tension built into it as well thanks to Charlie's (CHA-LEE) clever idea.

Extractor

A beefier, better material extractor will be made available soon. This is right after hammer & sear project.

Firing Pin Stop

A firing pin stop that slows down the slide is on the agenda and pre-design work has been done.

The magwell, magazine release button and extractor sound great. But help me understand why I want to slow down the slide.

[NoSteel]

All sound great. Looks like more $$$ your way as soon as available... Lovin that new trigger!!!

[littletoe]

yay! a Henning magwell! bolt on!!! its about time I was workin on making one myself out of desperation lol. thanks for saving me Henning

[jmcmanis]

Will the new Henning Magwell work on the Match?

[sinnsyk]

Give me a little time to design the magwell for the Limited / large frame, then I might look at match and small frame Limited/Gold Team as well.

;-)

[olp73]

Give me a little time to design the magwell for the Limited / large frame, then I might look at match and small frame Limited/Gold Team as well.

;-)

might look at the small frame????????? å kom igjen æ

For inspirational purposes only

Edited January 26, 2010 by olp73

[Jody Waring]

Small frame would be excellent :-)

[Limited Custom]

Henning - Where is the buffer ?????? Waiting.......

[sinnsyk]

We got materials, tools and a good headway on the new mag well today. We've got a very clean and nice design in the works. It will fit the IPSC standard box and be huge compared to the factory mag well.

Got a few ideas we're still playing with, but main design is 'solved'. We are making them from aluminum to keep the weight down. For anyone wanting more weight I'd suggest the Canyon Creek which is bad ass when you weld them on. They do provide the possibility to open up the frame for a better blend than any slide-on magwell will do.

Our aluminum magwells can be anodized in clear, black, red and blue. Not positive if I'll do the colors yet, but please chime in. I think I'll do some clear, black and red as they will match the contour grip in same color beautifully.

[ks-shooter]

We got materials, tools and a good headway on the new mag well today. We've got a very clean and nice design in the works. It will fit the IPSC standard box and be huge compared to the factory mag well.

I think I'll do some clear, black and red as they will match the contour grip in same color beautifully.

You already know that getting that "locked in" feel is every bit as important as the increased loading size (to me, it is more important). Black, red and clear sounds great! Obviously it makes it tougher on you to inventory three colors, but I know I have one IonBonded pistol and that needs black. The other is still HC so plain silver works.

Regarding a buffer; are you referring to a recoil buffer-plastic like a 1911? With the correct recoil spring, I do not understand why this is needed. Can someone explain?

[Dan-O-Mite]

I have an aluminum mag well on my CZ Tactical Sport. It's pretty beat up, and has begun to fit loosely, it was only a slide on fit. I had to drill and tap a small set screw to keep it from falling off.

My vote is for stainless steel material. If I was really worried about a little weight, I wouldn't be getting a bull barrel and full length dust cover on my new Tanfo gun.

[jmleenz]

Henning > How do you think your slide-on magwell will compare to the CCC magwell?

[sinnsyk]

To answer a few of the questions:

The last couple of days we've been working on the prototype slide-on magwell with very good results.

I will for sure make an aluminum version which for most will be the most interesting due to weight. Our tolerances will be super tight as usual and a world above the fit that the factories do. There will be an absolute minimum slop if any. I have about 10 guns at my disposal that I am using to decide tolerances (frames dating mid 90 - 2009). Besides a tight fit to frame in all the important places, I'm making a custom screw which will have a 0.1670" - 0.1665 spec solid pin to 'lock' the mag-well to the frame.

I understand that aluminum gets beat up by heavy use. Up until Rich started making his mag-well I was running the factory and of course it got pitted, but not really that bad at all. One of my buddies' dry fire insanely and apparently misses the center hole a lot ;-)... I am stunned how bad his mag well looked. For that type of abuse, only stainless will do. For most shooters I don't think it's going to be bad at all. I have the option of anodizing in hard clear and hard black which will be a significantly stronger coating / treatment than what you'll see on any of the factory. For the pimps out there I'd like to do a red, but of course nicks will show easy. But it will look awesome with the red checkered grips as my contour grip and mag-well will blend almost perfectly. I have the option for hard red and hard blue, but they don't match the regular [beautiful] red and blue colors that the grips come in. So you have to pick your good & evil. If you want a perfect show gun with a red well and grip, put it on the wall and it will look great.

Once we get design in it's final state it will be fairly easy to make a smaller run of stainless. Machining time is of course significantly longer so it will be more expensive. I still think I want to give you the option. The only minor obstacle I can see is potentially having to upgrade some tooling to carbide cutters and it could be a fairly significant expense as we're making several custom cutters.

Something I thought about...

which I'm not sure if will be economically feasible, would be to make a stainless bottom and aluminum top attachment piece. The cool thing about this would be that you could have a red, blue, clear or black matching mag-well to your already fancy contour grip. And with a shiny stainless 'mouth'.

I've got my rough prototype on my desk after leaving the machine shop at 4:30am this morning. We will do a run of the H-550S (small frame H-550 base pads) in between and then I'll continue to work with my machinist towards next weekend. Any suggestions / input in the mean time will be heard and may influence our direction.

..and the size of the mag well will be big & fit the box. It will be very similar in size to the Canyon and a few of the individually created wells seen posted here over the past couple years. My idea is to combine a big mouth with a perfectly as possible blended slide-on style well to the frame. (frames do vary in tolerances which makes this task impossible to make 100.00%. Due to factory variances I'm shooting for 99% and a vast improvement over the factory well & fit).

[BritinUSA]

What about an aluminium magwell with a Delrin insert, like Dawson made for the STI/SVI?

That way it's light and when the delrin gets beat up you just pull it out and snap in a new one.

[sinnsyk]

Yeah I've looked at that. I'm not sure if I'd be stepping on their toes ? And I'm not 100% sure if a delrin insert is the way to go. Any views on this ?

[ks-shooter]

Yeah I've looked at that. I'm not sure if I'd be stepping on their toes ? And I'm not 100% sure if a delrin insert is the way to go. Any views on this ?

I definitely believe the delrin insert is the best solution. However, the cost could be prohibitive if there is not a large enough base to spread the initial machining setup cost over. In addition, there could be a patent involved.

IMHO the Dawson ICE magwell is the best magwell on the market for the 2011.

[Chris Spiess]

What about an aluminium magwell with a Delrin insert, like Dawson made for the STI/SVI?

LOL, as i was reading Henning post immediately above Britin's post I was thinking exactly the same thing!

I've got Dawson ICE mag wells on a couple of Paras and they rock. I don't think you're stepping on Dawson's toes using the idea for a Tanfoglio magwell, that's certainly not up his alley. If there isn't something to take the abuse of my son practicing reloads with my gun (ok, I miss too) instead of bare aluminum, I'll be interested in stainless.

Have you considered contouring the inside of the mag well to be compatible with the Dawson ICE inserts? Then you wouldn't even have to worry about making them or designing something special.

[CHA-LEE]

Stainless is more durable and adds more weight to the gun. To me, those are both huge positives. With stainless you can also polish out the nicks and scratches easily with a dremel where you cant do this with anodized aluminum without taking off the protective anodizing surface. I dont think that the material of the Mouth of the magwell affects the missed reload as much as the friction between the mag body and the frame as you have the tip of the mag partially inserted into the gun but at a slightly wrong angle. The metal frame and metal mag body cause the most friction during a botched reload. If you try the same misaligned reload on plastic frame STI/SVI it slips right in because the metal magazine slips across the plastic frame a lot easier. Take an EAA pistol and to some less than optimal reloads, then pick up an STI/SVI with a plastic frame and do the same type of reloads. The STI/SVI plastic frame guns are WAY more forgiving due to the reduced mag body to plastic frame friction.

I think that if we had plastic mag bodies, like Glock mags, this would greatly reduce the friction between the mag and frame making reloads all that much harder to screw up. But coming up with an injection mold for each magazine type would be some HUGE $$$.

A better solution would be to redesign the frame to make the mag portion larger so you could put in a plastic sleeve. This way you would have the Metal on Plastic reduction in friction and also have the opportunity to switch out the sleeves when/if they get worn out. The sleeve could also be made to have the mag well flare built into it so it goes all the way from the outer edge of the mag well up into the gun beyond where the mag catch is located inside the frame. That would be really trick and functional but also HUGE $$$ to make.

You really have two paths here with an aftermarket magwell. Bling with reduced toughness (Anodized Aluminum), or No bling and increased toughness (Stainless Steel). Since the primary job of my gun is to perform I will always pick functional over fashion. But I am sure there are many others that feel the Bling is more important to them than function.

Edited January 28, 2010 by CHA-LEE

[BritinUSA]

Yeah I've looked at that. I'm not sure if I'd be stepping on their toes ? And I'm not 100% sure if a delrin insert is the way to go. Any views on this ?

You could always email Dawson and ask him if its okay to copy the idea. As others have said he does not make Tanfoglio parts so it would not affect him financially.

[NoSteel]

I run an aluminum magwell on my M&P Pro as well as on my Springfield 1911. In both cases I have polished the inside to a mirror like finish which cuts down on the dings as well as helps make the re-loads very smooth. I have found that aluminum is also a lot easier on the mags than stainless is for those of us doing less than stellar reloads. If the correct grade ( What will be used ? ) aluminum is used it will stand up fine. I don't care about the weight I just want something that I can anchor my hand on.. Henning, if you want a guinea pig tell me what you need for measurements and the cost. I don't care for the stock limited well, I'm ready for this piece!!!

[sinnsyk]

I think there could be an evolution of the mag well as we progress and I will (and already have..) look at insert possibilities as I like to entertain ideas of the ultimate design. Some people like inserts, some have had negative experiences with them. And as stated here, some like alu over steel and vice versa. Who's wrong, who's right, who's to say?

Personally I love Rich's stainless mag well which is welded on four of my guns. To speak a few words of the main benefit of welding a stainless well on the frame - making a larger opening in the actual frame is of huge benefit to the seating of the magazine once it's entered the mag well. Welding on a stainless well allows for the optimal blend of the well and the frame. It's done on my guns and performance is greatly enhanced.

The aluminum mag well will have a hugely improved opening compared to the factory and the well opening will have the same beneficial characteristics as the Canyon well. For those who don't want to weld/glue and grind/blend, you can have a similar well to the Canyon installed in a minute. However, there will be a transition between the well and the frame. Of course you could grind the frame and blend to the well if you want. I've done this on my factory wells in the past. If I want to modify my frame to that ultimate extent I would just go with Rich's SS well, weld and grind till the magwell angle transitions into the frame. I have no friction trouble seating mags or experience of what Charlie is getting into on the plastic/steel material. Making a plastic magazine is not realistic nor the right solution in my opinion. If anything I'd like a slightly wider steel mag [for better stacking of rounds], but then the frame should be wider on the inside. So that's not happening unfortunately and I asked the factory to do this back in 2004. My advice would be - if you've got Rich's SS well, transition the well angle further into the frame. Chroming your magbodies is an option that will make them more slippery.

Regarding aluminum itself as material for the mag well, I think it's a very appropriate material for the job and widely used. Many does not want their Limited or Gold Teams to get any heavier and it's very understandable. Most gun owners doesn't want to modify their guns either. And being able to install it yourself is very attractive over sending your gun to a gunsmith. There is a market for both style of wells, you just have to decide what's right for you;

1) weight vs wear factor

2) your willingness to modify frame permanently

3) looks, color options, look/match to grips

So again, I'm a huge fan of the welded magwell, but one thing to be very aware of. You will void your factory warranty. If you replace your magwell with the new slip-on, keep your factory as well as all other factory parts you upgrade from. Always restore gun to factory condition if you need to send it in for warranty reasons.

On the topic of bling vs function, I always want function. That is the number one motivation behind all the improvements I work on. I will never compromise function over form, that's getting it totally wrong and I think you cannot put people down for wanting both. We can always discuss what the ultimate function is to the end of days. We are different and we want different things from our guns. Most of us are very proud of our guns, treasure them and want to show them off on top of rocking them at matches. For me, Form follows Function. Putting the extra effort into making an aesthetically pleasing product that achieves the purpose of the improvement is what motivates me.

;-)

[Ridgerunnr]

Probably too early yet but any time line on the magwell and the buffer system?..got the itch to tinker..lol

NOT that your not going 100 mph on the stuff..But I gotta ask anyway

[Glk21C]

Henning, will the magwell your developing fit an older Competition Frame? Please see the post I attached when I asked Rich @ Canyon Creek about his.

Thanks

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93222

[sinnsyk]

What year did you acquire this gun ?

I've checked the new magwell against some of my older frames and the measurements you gave Rich match these. There may be that some contour shape of your frame is slightly different, but looks like it's going to be same as the new ones. We're using about 8 of my guns to make sure we get the tightest possible fit well to frame. Minor fitting may be necessary, but I'm doing what I can to ensure they will slide right on without any slop.