Jacketed vs. lead

[John Z Sr]

An informal poll of revo shooters,,,, I use lead for most of my practice and outdoor matches ( much cheaper) and jacketed for indoor and major matches,,, what are the other revo shooters using and why?

[Bubber]

John, I use Billy's Moly coat lead all the time, practice , match, indoor, outdoors. Because I'm cheap and they hit where I point them. Now if I can point them where I aim I will have it all sewn up. If I use the same bullet all the time I can tweak the loads to get what I need in the accuracy and felt recoil department. I do try other stuff from time to time but I always seem to gravitate back. later rdd,

[scottyinAZ]

+1 for billy bullets and everything else Bubber said!!!

[Chris Christian]

I use lead for practice and club maches, but shift to jacketed for major matches. The jacketed loads are a bit more accurate (at least in my Ruger GP-100) and don't crud up the chambers as much (less mid-match brushing time, and smoother extraction). I figure that if I have spent the time & money to travel to a Sanctioned Match, I want the best bullet I can get. I don't want to have to wonder if that 1 that was just outside the IDPA 0 zone would have been a 0 (and saved me .5 seconds) had I been using jacketed instead of lead (and I don't even want to think about a 3 that just missed the line!). I do make certain that my lead practice loads have the same POI and recoil as the jacketed match loads.

Chris Christian

[Wideload]

I've been using cast 230's and dealing with the cloud of smoke. This year, I am planning to shoot the green bullets from Bayou Bullets at indoor matches and the larger outdoor matches. May resort to some plain cast for local outdoor matches.

[ChrisC]

i shoot match quality ammo all the time that was i don't have to worry about my ammo making major or if i loaded it correctly. just point and bang.

i also just use billy bullets in my revo's

[Blueridge]

I shoot lead in practice and matches. I am not interested in keeping up with lead and jacketed bullets. USPSA, IDPA, and CAS are not precision shooting matches, and I get the accuracy that I need from my lead bullets.

But hey, I am the guy who shoots a Ruger Alaskan (stock, no modifications) loaded with .45 Colt 250gr LRNFP ammunition. The bullets go where I point them, and most of the time where I am aiming. If you want the opinion of someone that is more particular about their firearm and ammo, then I am not your guy.

I read about people talking about how much smoke they are getting from "this powder and that bullet", but I cannot say that I notice smoke when I am shooting stages. I have looked at videos of my shooting and see the amount of smoke that is there when I am shooting (and it's there), but I never recall seeing the smoke during my actual shooting of the stages. I have wondered why I don't notice the smoke, but I came to the conclusion that it's not important to me when I am shooting. Therefore it does not register consciously when I am shooting.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Blueridge

[MrBorland]

For action shooting, it's plated (Berry's RN) for me.

For target work, a 148gr lead HBWC works nicely.

[hopalong]

I'm not the best source of info, but I have shot quite a few bullets through a handgun.

for practice, club level, and the occasional sectional I'll shoot lead bullets. Lets do the math for last year.

I shot approximately 22,000 .45 lrn trough my 45s (Some revo some sstk) my price for that bullet from my guy is 68 bucks a k for a total of $1,496 and I shot less than 2k 230grn fmj precision Deltas that I get at 108 a k 40 bucks a k more than my lead so I saved myself $880 by shooting lead. OR actually I used that $880 plus a little to go to a match or two (like A-1 and A-7).

I've been using lead ever since I started this game in 01 and had my lead level check this spring. IT was 13 and the DR said I was GREAT and even wondered how it was so low with all the shooting I do. I told him I shoot outside exclusively and wash my hands often.

So there you go, IF you only shoot a few K a year there is not much difference, but when you start putting bullets down range the difference is worth it (For me).

Hop, just my opinion but see my tag line about opinions

Edit to add:

I do have to clean my revo up pretty regularly as after 2000 rounds of Clays and lead bullets it gets pretty dirty, but the gun that has take the majority of the shooting still has a nice pretty barrel with sharp edged rifling. I'm pretty comfortable saying this one of my 625s has 300,000+ rounds on it all at Major PF and it still shoots 2 inches or better at 20yds (I barely can myself). That is another thing to take into consideration.

Hop

Edited January 9, 2010 by hopalong

[Toolguy]

I shoot mostly Zero JHP bullets for matches. Shoot a lot of .22 rimfire for practice, but also practice with Zero. I have tried several

commercial cast bullets and have had a lot of barrel leading and poor accuracy. I have tried the copper plated bullets and they were

the worst of all. I used to cast my own, but don't have time now. When I was casting, I could shoot hundreds of bullets in small

groups without cleaning the gun and everything worked fine. I was using soft Alox type lube. The commercial guys are using hard

lube so they can bulk pack the bullets for shipping. I think that is the big difference. I have not tried the Moly coat or green Bayou

Bullets yet. The Zeros are about the same price as the copper plated bullets and are very accurate, so that was the best route for me.

[CDPMatt]

Lead.... cheap, accurate and readily available.

[Service Desk]

Lead.... cheap, accurate and readily available.

+1..... the Green lubed ones are the ducks gutsz, next to no lube smoke and acceptable accuracy (2" at 50yards in my PPC guns).

For me most of the smoke is burned up Clays or Clay Dot.... not lube.

[brnhp35]

I shoot mostly mg jacket now but have and probably will go back to shooting moly coated for most practice. the only thing is i have choosen (spl??) one powder for most of my loading and it is faster and therefore smokes some with lead or moly and although not a trbl in uspsa where not too many shots from one location (usually) the smoke can be a pain on a still day at a steel match

[Boats]

Here is an old guys opinion

Bullet weight size and velocity we are using in revolvers for match shooting has not changed for nearly 150 years. 35 or 45 caliber cartridges. well under 900 fps Lead has always worked just fine . Only real reason to change to jacketed bullets is to spend more money. The often reported problems with lead are mostly from poor bullet fit, alloy too hard or barrels with residual copper from shooting jacketed bullets. Smoke ? it's a gun it's supposed to smoke, rarely causes a problem on target.

Autos particularly the smaller bore's at higher velocity like 9mm it's another thing. Jacketed bullets work better. You can get good target performance with the .45 ACP in 1911's and lead bullets with just a little care in loading. I figure the 45 loaded for Automatics is a toss up lead vs jacketed bullets. Revolvers you don't need jacketed bullets.

Boats

[DougCarden]

I shoot lead for practice and local matches that I don't have any big money tied up in.

Anytime I spend a night in a motel or fly to a match I shoot jacketed, period.

It is next to nothing the difference in price for what you will shoot at the match, and after driving almost 1000 miles one way to PA to shoot a Pin match with my lead loads at a range that had no air movement and couldnt see the table after 3 shots (needed to shoot 5 to clear the table) I did a little thinking on the way home during that 1000 miles.

I will spend the extra couple dollars for Jacketed bullets for the important matches, and go without a couple movie rentals during the year ........If you have ever been the first shooter in the morning facing the sun, or one of the last ones late in the day, you understand why you don't want to always shoot lead bullets at a match that is IMPORTANT to you.

Regards,

DougC

[Boats]

Doug you make a good point. I travel to matches and no doubt Ammo is the cheapest part of the equation.

Our indoor range with lights off the fans go off. I have had smoke problems using my 625's with 18 rounds same spot indoors flashlight. Outdoors never had a problem. Even indoors with high round count if you know it's going to smoke it's possable to compensate by moving just a bit to the side. Thats IDPA were it's less likely to have to shoot from a box.

My take is it's best to use in pratice what you use in matches. Loading jacketed bullets for revolvers is different, crimp OAL loads etc. If somebody has the jacketed loads worked out well thats fine but often times I have seen guys go wrong switching to something different on match day. Best thing to shoot is what works good for you tried and proven.

Boat

Edited January 10, 2010 by Boats

[DougCarden]

Boats, you and I agree on this totally. You need to make sure your stuff will work, and yeah, I have to scour my cylinder charge holes to make sure they are clean when switching over to jacketed for a match.

I just would like to help someone who hasn't had the "SmokyPoky" Haze at a match just ruin their day.

Back to the reloading bench.......LOL

DougC

[Danva]

I have been using FMJ's in revo. I shot some Bayou bullets last weekend and they seemed to work well with smoke not noticeable. They are a lot cheaper than the FMJ's and I will be doing more work with them.

[John Z Sr]

I appreciate everyone's input on this. I've been casting quite a bit and have lead loads worked up for all my revo's that are the same power factor and feel as my jacketed loads. Nothing fancy on the cast bullets, "Lee" molds for the most part and Alox lube, a little sticky, but for the price and ease, you really can't beat it. I've found that range scrap lead and/or plain old wheelweights are about the right hardness for all my revo loads (all under 900 FPS) and for my 9MM's, I use a 150 lrn .38 bullet sized to .357 ( per an article in "Reloader magazine a year ago) and they hold 1 1/4" at 25 yards from a rest in my stock Beretta 92 and make minor (887 FPS @150 gr) power factor of 133 with no recoil. Like many others though, I also shoot jacketed bullets in major matches and for the indoor IDPA matches that I shoot.

[sargenv]

I had been using Bear creek Moly coated until last March when I started looking into casting my own. I will likely burn up my remaining stock of Bear creeks and then will switch entirely to my own cast boolits. I already use my own ~185 gr RN in my 610 and will likely switch to a ~158 gr RN for my 38 caliber guns. Both the super and the 357's loaded to 38 spl velocities.

[scottyinAZ]

I had just been looking into the items needed to cast my own bullets, just to have in case bullets get hard to come by. any input would be great. I like the BillyBullets a lot, but the prices have been creaping up each year. i can get precision deltas for $4 more per 1K delivered to my door, and montana golds are about $3-4 more than that. So the lead might be a thing of the past. BillyBullets do everything i need them to do, but i do clean my gun every match, and have to scrub and scrub to get the lead out. i just ordered a Lewis Lead remover kit thinking maybe that the right tool for the job will help. I would pay the extra $4 if i could spend less time cleaning and more shooting. i have never shot jacketed out of my revolvers so i dont know how the accuracy will be with jacketed. i can get lead sized how i want it to gain accuracy. with the right powder Billybullets smoke very little. i do like the black ring the lead leaves on the paper for icore and can "help" a score sometimes.

Scott Shepherd

Edited January 11, 2010 by scottyinAZ

[S&WIowegan]

This topic makes me smile cuz it's my observation that we never change the other guys' mind on this subject. In the early 90s when I was fairly new to IPSC, I was having a few beers with Todd Jarrett when this subject came up. Todd just looked at me and said: "You can't see a thing with lead in your gun". Nobody believes that until he finds himself at a match on a foggy, humid, windless flood-plain range (think Lowell IA). The smoke volume is intensified by humidity. Best is trying to shoot 50 yd. standards prone under those conditions.

Bob.

A16841

[John Z Sr]

Scotty, I've been using mostly "Lee" products for casting. The lead pot is around $50.00 bucks and the 2 cavity molds are under $20.00 handles included. I mostly use the 6 cavity molds (3 times faster) for about $35.00 bucks with another $15.00 or so for the handles. The lube/size kit is under $15.00 bucks and has enough "Alox" lube to do a few thousand bullets (extra ones are 'bout $3.00). So for about $100.00 you are casting, just need a supply of lead, wheelweights are getting harder to get, but you can always go to a local anti-gun rally and pull the wheelweights of their cars while they are all inside complaining about us!!!

Bob, as far as Todd shooting lead, I've shot with Todd more than enough to know that he shoots a stage way faster than the smoke has a chance to cloud his vision!!!!

[glocklover]

Where do you go to find lead?

[6-shot]

Lead ,cuz it's way cheaper. Really wish I could afford Berry's or Rainiers again!

Scott