No Shoot Technique

[Jasonub]

Hi guys,

I have a question that has been bugging me since I watched TGO's dillon video.

one no shoot on the left or right and the ipsc target. TGO says that one should shoot at the biggest area of the target. If we do that we are looking at the line between A and C.

Using a limited gun, what should we shoot the A or the line in between A and C???

When shooting static I can easyly hit 2 A's on this setup aiming for the A. On the move, I prefer TGO's advice.

Now what will you Master class and GM class shooters do?

Thanks

[ErikW]

I go for the Alphas, unless the target is a mile away, then I only go for the Alphas with the Open gun. I'd maybe go for the center of available brown if I were shooting weak-handed and the target wasn't close.

[Jake Di Vita]

Points per second....gotta shoot Alphas.

[TheOtherErik]

There is a certain level of risk analisys that you have to do. Decide to go for the a's or just hit the brown depends on the distance and if you are moving or static. Whats it worth to you? Two C's are better than a A M NS

[tightloop]

Jake

Everything is tempered by the circumstances. Example: I would shoot this differently if it were the first stage of a match, than the last stage and I needed to win the stage to win the match. I might shoot it more conservatively if I was not quite on my game, or if my competition was shooting at a 100+ % of their ability and watch them crash and burn. Lots of factors enter into the thinking, rather than just knowing you should TRY to shoot A's. It is a risk vs reward thing, is the time right to risk going for it, or are there still too many variables in the mix to make that call.

[Navy Joe]

I heard someone on here say to shoot like the NS wasn't there. Anybody try this? I haven't worked up the nerve to do this yet, last match in a couple of situations my "conservative solution" was to just take head shots. It worked okay there, but elsewhere I'm scared of the white guy. Actually last match was kinda conservative. More As, first match in a long while with no Mikes or NS. Strange.

[Jake Di Vita]

TL

I know where you are coming from, but when you are shooting...even if it is a crowded target, don't you always go for the highest scoring surface? It seems to me that letting the difficulty of the target dictate how you shoot it could be a bad habit to get into.

I dunno...more opinions are welcome. I think we can get a great discussion going here.

[Flexmoney]

Shooting Minor, I hate Charlies.

Shooting Major, it might be worth the possible Charlies.

Kinda depends on the target and the shooter. If you are confident of hitting Alphas, then what difference does it make if the no-shoot is there or not?

But, if you aren't sure of your hits, then it likely wouldn't be worth the risk.

This is probably one of those things each shooter will have to work out.

[Jasonub]

I personally shoot the alpha, and so far, I have not hit a no shoot. I just asked since TGO does it this way or does he shoot for A's

shooting at the line will give you a 50/50 percent on getting an A or C on each shot

[Liota]

At Area 4 this year, I found that if I didn't see the no shoot, it really wasn't a factor. For the whole match, I consiously saw exactly zero white paper targets and all but one brown one (oops! Two mikes for the whole match). If the no shoots stay in the periphery of my awareness, they are no problem. By the way, that was the coolest match from a purely mental perspective I've ever shot. It was the first time, I could truly see.

Liota

[SmittyFL]

I always shoot center mass of what I have available. I don't think it is worth the risk for one or two targets in a stage. I guess if you were shooting minor it might be different, I'm not sure, I've never shot minor on purpose.

[tightloop]

Smittyfl,

That is my point exactly.

the NS targets are there to make you slow down, it is your choice to do it or not. You can slow down and shoot A's and still have a 10% chance to hit a NS, or keep your speed and shoot center of mass. Two schools of thought there, I am of the latter.

[lynn jones]

I always shoot center mass of what I have available. I don't think it is worth the risk for one or two targets in a stage.

see SmittyFL's avatar

[SmittyFL]

That's funny Lynn, I didn't even think of that.

I must admit however, when I do shoot NS's they are GREAT groups. That's why I stay away from them.

[chp5]

I tend to agree with SmittyFL.

No shoots - just like water in golf - tend to draw my attention and focus. You will tend to hit what you focus on, so I stay far away from the no shoot and focus on COM.

I sometimes deviate from this rule when shooting minor.

[PaulW]

I agree with Smitty and Tightloop on this one "UNLESS" the targets are really close, 10 yrds or closer then I'll try and squeeze them into the A-zone. If you have to conciously think about shooting 2 A's on a particular target then you've already lost time.

[Ron Ankeny]

I shoot for the center of available brown when shooting major unless the target is really close. When I shoot minor I'll go for the A if there is minimal risk involved.

[tightloop]

Jake

Everyone has to find their own pucker factor. I mean, knowing what you can really do at speed, under the pressure of a big match.

For me, when I am on my game, it is about 90-90. Meaning I can reliably shoot 90% A's at 90% of my speed. Also, remember, it is a really rare person who can shoot the same speed and scores on race day that they could in practice. I have been doing this in some form for over 25 yrs and I have known ONE person who could shoot the same scores on race day as they did in practice.

Knowing your own capabilities and where you are in the process goes a long way toward allowing you to shoot your best at any given time. Along with knowing your capabilities, you must also know your own limitations, and what your "pucker" factor really is.

Unless this game gets like golf and allows you to shoot 50 or so rounds before actually shooting for score, I don't feel like I can go all out on the first couple of stages. I didn't always feel like that, but after crashing and burning a couple of thousand times when I was your age, I have learned to have a little patience till I feel dialed in and know my own capabilities on that given day. Don't know about you, but, I have very few days where I have the same abilities on the same drills as I did in days past. It changes day to day, at least for me. Till I get dialed in, I can't shoot "all out".

You must be able to accurately assess your capabilites on a day to day basis as you show up at the match, and do it accurately without blowing sunshine up your own dress...to do otherwise is a sure way to fail...been there done that, countless times.

There are some shots that are just beyond my capabilities, and to understand that is not a lack of "balls", but just shooting within your own capabilities on any given day. I have shot the Bill Drill in 1.63 clean, and the next day best I could do was over 2 sec, go figure. Your body and your capabilities change day to day, and even within that day. Shoot within yourself till you figure out if this is a 1.63 day or a 2.5 day...then turn it loose.

I guess my point to this long and rather ponderous post is that our (my) capabilities are fluid and change day to day. I think everyone's skill set fluctuates day to day, or the same guy would win ALL the time. I for one cannot go for A's if it is out of my comfort zone on any particular day. The thing that makes it hard is that our abilities fluctuate hourly much less day to day. Not the core fundamentals, but the fine motor skills that win matches...A good example of this factor is Jerry Barnhart. Can't count the times he crashed and burned, till he got his excitement and emotions under control...

I guess finding our limits is what this is all about, and makes it fun.

[Jake Di Vita]

Cool.

[Gwhiz]

If there is less than a whole A zone to shoot at, I shoot for the middle of the availible A zone. Gotta at least try for the points.

[Sam]

I like to shoot for the "A"s. Out to about 1O yards, I usually will. But, I also have this annoying habit of shying away from white if the stage is really a fast one. Like I'll aim at the line between the "A-C" zone. And of course, I always hit 2 "C"s.

[skeeter]

i always go for speed. aim for the center of the brown and let her fly.

[mcoliver]

Like some of the replies above, I, too, do not look at the no-shoot. It messes up my gameplan and will likely steer my attention TO it. So I just see the target and decide which point I want to aim on it, more often its still a portion of the A-zone.

[John Dunn]

One of the last classifiers I shot was Mini-Mart, even thought he targets are at powder burn distance, the no shoots had me a little spooked on T1 and T2. Before I shot I decided to shoot the Alphas and no shoots be cursed. It worked out OK. I think the important thing is to know how you're going to shoot it, where you're going to aim, and then execute. Nothing like nailing whitey then over correcting into a D hit.

[Bill Schwab]

For me it depends on the stage. If it's a quick stage, the points are going to be needed in order to get a winning HF, if it's a field course I just let 'er rip in the center of brown.