Field Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 honestly i dont get why the US needs to have a special modified version of IPSC. Im not talking about any specific rules in particular its mainly the idea that for some reason ''we need to do it different because we are special'' or something. You dont see Brazil or JoeBloAthia making thier own special branch of competition shooting that is different from how the rest of the world does it. somebody please explain the logic here, or how/why it happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 This get's brought up periodicly, and it generally turns sour quickly. I'm hoping by now most here realize I'm not an anti-american type of guy, but there are a few observations that could be viewed as such. 1) Most Americans who shoot IPSC will never leave the US, so it's of no great concern to them if USPSA follows a different path. 2) Unlike many organizations where membership numbers carry weight, IPSC is set up in such a way that each participating member nation has exactly the same weight. 3) Each nation has only one vote, and many votes are voted by proxy when smaller nations don't attend the World Shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDB Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 This from the IPSC website: "History The art of shooting can be traced back as far as the Middle Ages but it wasn't until the 19th century that shooting actually developed into a sport. In the 200 years since, shooters have come together at the local, national, and international level to practice and compete in a variety of shooting disciplines. IPSC-style competitive shooting developed in southern California, U.S.A. in the late 1950's and quickly spread throughout the shooting world. As the sport attracted more interest, participants sought a more structured format and competition environment. As a result, in May of 1976, the International Pistol Conference was held in Colombia, Missouri where sportsmen from around the world participated in determining the structure, organization, and future of IPSC marksmanship. A constitution was established and the Confederation was born." Developed in Southern Cal. and constituted in Missouri. Maybe over the years it was the world that did there own thing, not us. But like Canuck says, most of us will never leave the US to shoot anyway, so other than curiousity, it doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezco Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Nice, I learned something today! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Half of the world's IPSC shooters are in USPSA. USPSA has one vote in IPSC. Do the math Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Nice, I learned something today!Thanks! http://www.ipsc.org/cconf.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Half of the world's IPSC shooters are in USPSA.USPSA has one vote in IPSC. Do the math Alex I love this response!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 The sport was invented here, developed here, and originally organized here. As it spread many other countries "changed" it to fit their requirements (targets etc). I believe in this case you have reversed your cart and horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) huh. ok i didnt do my homework i guess....but then you could still ask the same question...just in reverse Edited November 11, 2009 by Field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 You could ask about IDPA...Steel Challenge...NRA Action Pistol...or any of a number of non-affiliated matches that are shooting at a range near you. Why have a Coke and a Pepsi...let alone Dr. Pepper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 honestly i dont get why the US needs to have a special modified version of IPSC. Im not talking about any specific rules in particular its mainly the idea that for some reason ''we need to do it different because we are special'' or something. You dont see Brazil or JoeBloAthia making thier own special branch of competition shooting that is different from how the rest of the world does it.somebody please explain the logic here, or how/why it happened Special , we are special. Its called the 2nd amendment. Just like everyone else said, we invented and developed it. Its the rest of the world who is changing it to fit what they think it should be. The views of Uspsa and Ipsc seem to be getting further apart. You have an active push to ban all headcams because they are dangerous in Ipsc?? Also banning wearing sandals in Ipsc??? If we separted from Ipsc it would not affect us at all and there are many that would be happy if we do. As per the forum rules this wasn't to start a Ipsc vs Uspsa but to let the poster know that there has been a difference in point of view between Our Uspsa and the views Ipsc have and its nothing new. Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) huh. ok i didnt do my homework i guess....but then you could still ask the same question...just in reverse Alot of it comes down to us having the 2nd amendment. Nobody else has access to guns like we do in the US. They create rules and feel the sport should go a certain way because of the limited access to guns in other countries. The targets are a perfect example. The Ipsc target was created so that Ipsc wouldn't seem like it was a sport to train people on how to shoot or kill other people. To make it more polictically correct. I don't blame them, those trying to change the rules to help make sure they can keep shooting the sport. We all know how much fun it is. They are just trying to make sure they keep shooting but sometimes in trying to keep accidents and things from happening that would make Ipsc come into question on whether a country would allow its citizens to keep shooting it there are rules and decisions that make zero sense to us here in US and seem to be way overboard. I personally would like to see Uspsa and Ipsc work it out but I just don't see how thats possible. There are too many countries that want all all firearms banned with no recreational shooting. I think Ipsc is just trying to survive and has its own agenda which is different than ours. Flyin Edited November 11, 2009 by Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 And IPSC isn't IPSC everywhere either..... Some countries ban shooting on the move. Some countries have ten round limits for all divisions Some countries have minimum barrel lengths --- so they get an exemption for Production rules Some countries have caliber restrictions Some countries have gun restriction, so IPSC is IPSC AirSoft...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerT Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 ---snip....I personally would like to see Uspsa and Ipsc work it out but I just don't see how thats possible. There are too many countries that want all all firearms banned with no recreational shooting. I think Ipsc is just trying to survive and has its own agenda which is different than ours. Flyin +1 on that, for example IPSC is a totally forbidden shooting sport and subject to a hefty fine in Ireland, as of 2009...... In the strive to be "politically correct" IPSC has deviated from the USPSA rules in an effort to minimize the focus on the "equipment development" common among shooters in the world to be more focused on the "sport aspect" of shooting, in an attemot to be legal in the rest of the world (there was even a hairy brained attempt to make IPSC to an Olympic event...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Warrior Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 As a Canadian I'm GLAD USPSA exists!! 2 words: Big Sticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chendersby Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 honestly i dont get why the US needs to have a special modified version of IPSC. Im not talking about any specific rules in particular its mainly the idea that for some reason ''we need to do it different because we are special'' or something. You dont see Brazil or JoeBloAthia making thier own special branch of competition shooting that is different from how the rest of the world does it.somebody please explain the logic here, or how/why it happened I was on the USPSA board when the split happened so I can tell you exactly why this is. For many years we used the IPSC rulebook with certain exceptions for the US. These had to be approved by IPSC whenever a new book came out. As the political climate around the world has gotten more anti gun, IPSC has had to sanitize, for lack of a better term, the sport so it can continue in many places. The US does not suffer that problem (yet). So we agreed to have seperate rule books. This allowed IPSC to do what they needed to keep the sport alive around the world and us to practice it as it was origionally intended (sort of). There are many examples of sporting organizations having different rules locally, nationally and internationally so we are not unique in this. Hope that sheds some light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 That's useful history to know. I was around at the time as well, but didn't hear that part of the story. Most of what I heard at the time was how IPSC was restricting the sport in the form we enjoy it in. No reasons given, so it looked, to rank and file USPSA shooter, to be arbitrary and anti-American. A common sentiment at the adoption of a completely separate USPSA rulebook was, "Good riddance, we don't need them." Good to understand where people are coming from, even if you don't agree with them or like what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Additionally based on my research, and I got started only 3 years after the establishment of IPSC, the key is in the word "confederation". It was a group, who had a common purpose, and goal. It was a group of individuals within individual nations that had a vision and set out a means to achieve that vision. That it was a "confederation" there was no central authority. Each participant (nation) was free to establish rules that were workable in their own particular situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I think the current arrangement is the best it has ever been. We are free to hold USPSA or IPSC events in this country and IPSC is free to do what it needs to do to promote the sport within the limitations of regional laws etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I think the current arrangement is the best it has ever been. We are free to hold USPSA or IPSC events in this country and IPSC is free to do what it needs to do to promote the sport within the limitations of regional laws etc.. +1 Why not just shoot both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 What year did IPSC and USPSA split? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 What year did IPSC and USPSA split? The USPSA rulebook is dated for January 2008 -- and that was also (I think) the first year that USPSA held the IPSC Championship in the U.S..... Basically we're still part of IPSC, but clubs have the option of hosting IPSC matches under IPSC rules or USPSA matches under USPSA rules..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Basically we're still part of IPSC, but clubs have the option of hosting IPSC matches under IPSC rules or USPSA matches under USPSA rules..... This is very interesting. I didn't understand why there were two organizations and why the rules were different. Providing their laws allow it, can other countries host USPSA matches under USPSA rules? Could another country host a USPSA match that was just limited to Production, L10, SS, and Revolver and thus avoid the hi-cap mag issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancair Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Basically we're still part of IPSC, but clubs have the option of hosting IPSC matches under IPSC rules or USPSA matches under USPSA rules..... This is very interesting. I didn't understand why there were two organizations and why the rules were different. Providing their laws allow it, can other countries host USPSA matches under USPSA rules? Could another country host a USPSA match that was just limited to Production, L10, SS, and Revolver and thus avoid the hi-cap mag issues? Not (officially) without the USPSA's permission, but there's nothing stopping IPSC regional organizations from running practical shooting competitions that don't use the IPSC rule book. IPSC Italy and the Czech Republic have been running single stack matches for a while, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You could ask about IDPA...Steel Challenge...NRA Action Pistol...or any of a number of non-affiliated matches that are shooting at a range near you. Why have a Coke and a Pepsi...let alone Dr. Pepper? And yes we can pretend that the moderators never stir the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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