shred Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Point is that I don't want to buy two sets of anything. Holster, mags, belts, ammo, anything. I guess it is my opinion that you cannot "poor boy" any part of the journey , because it is just two steps back instead of one forward. I don't mean you have to spend $$ indiscriminately, but within the scope of the BIG picture, don't scrimp. I would rather see someone save up their $$ till they could do it RIGHT, one time, than suffer, cuss, and and become disenchanted by trying to transition their gear from basic to trick one piece at a time. Definately! I wasted way too much time dinking with half-assed equipment and I see others doing it today over and over again. Many shooters are um "economically minded" and want to save some $, but anybody serious will do far, far better in the long run ditching the "it'll work, but it's not ideal" stuff and getting the best and most competitive gear they can afford, and then running that forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 If you have a gun/holster combo that is safe, reliable and accurate enough to hit a popper at 25 yards...There is a 99% chance your gear is good enough to take you as far as you are willing to go. This needs pointing out from time to time. SA I just thought I would bring that back to the top. "...safe, reliable and accurate enough..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 L2SIf I get beaten with my gear it is lack of ability, if I drag to the line with some worn out pistol, questionable mags, cheap ammo, and some soft nylon holster and get beaten, I don't know if I was the culprit or my gear or a combination of the two that caused me to finish last in class. I guess it is my opinion that you cannot "poor boy" any part of the journey , because it is just two steps back instead of one forward. I don't mean you have to spend $$ indiscriminately, but within the scope of the BIG picture, don't scrimp. I would rather see someone save up their $$ till they could do it RIGHT, one time, than suffer, cuss, and and become disenchanted by trying to transition their gear from basic to trick one piece at a time. Just a difference in philosophy, I guess. Basic doesn't mean crappy. A Glock 35, bladetech holster and mag pouches. It may be poor boy, but it will shoot better than you can. You can obtain world class skills using basic stuff, just ask David S. "...safe, reliable and accurate enough..." If you are going full race then by all means, go full race, top of the line, but it won't make you a better shooter. It might just help hide you some of your weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Glock 35, bladetech holster and mag pouches That is world class gear for sure. If your gun will hold 4-5" at 50 yards (not you, but the gun) and you can get it out of the holster you have in under 1.5 seconds, then you have got gear good enough to get to the top. The rest is ammo and practice, practice, practice. I know I spend way too much time tweaking my gear and not enough time practicing. If I turned that equation upside down, I would probably be in M class by now instead of still fighting my way out of B with some really great gear :-) Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 L2S & Flex Many times you guys are right, BASIC does not mean crappy; it is just that newbie shooters many times cannot tell the difference, and end up with Basically Crappy gear. I am not trying to play word games here, merely suggesting that it seems like we can and do have a different idea about how to reach the same goal. I've got a bud that I have shot with for 25 yrs just like you guys. He has the $$ to to it first class, it is just that he would rather beat you with basic gear every once in a while than join you in whipping everyone there with your trick gear, most of the time. More than one way to skin that cat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I was going to post this before, but I wanted to be brief for a change. However, you guys have brought up a couple of items that I think I'll address. When I first started shooting USPSA I had a Glock 35. I shot several thousand rounds through the pistol before I finally dumped the thing. Glocks just point way too high so I tried bending my left elbow, rotating the support hand down, etc. I also have short but wide hands and it's very hard for me to get "behind" the pistol. The flat grip panels on the Glock made it especially hard for me to get a decent purchase on the pistol with my left hand. At that time, I figured Glock was the best entry level pistol (and it probably is), and oh my what Sevigny can do with one of those guns. Still, the ergonomics just weren't for me. No matter how much ammo, practice time, or instruction, I was not going to reach my potential with that gun. The solution was to buy an STI from one of the major makers. I could have bought a stock Edge and been done with it, but I chose to buy from a custom builder. I spoke with Benny Hill about the equipment race and we both agreed that way too many try to buy achievement through gear instead of skill development. However, Benny told me something that makes a whole lot of sense. If a person is going to be in this game for the long run and if they can afford it, buy world class equipment. He told me it is nice to know that you are going to the line with the best gear possible that runs. It removes all doubt about the gear and puts the responsibility for the score where it belongs, on the shooter. I agree that blowing in the wind while you buy this gadget and that is not going to take you far down the road to success. However, quality gear that is properly set up, in combination with dedication, instruction and practice, will take you further faster than shooting mediocre equipment until you are ankle deep in brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Well said Ron!! I guess it's finding the line between, ok, I have the right equipment, stop messing with it and practice. Over the last year, no lie, I have shot 4 different open guns, tried 3 different holsters, 2 different mag pouches and 2 different belts. Also tried about 10-15 different loads.......wew. Now I have settled on gun, holster, mag pouches and I feal a huge monkey is off my back. One thing I don't really agree on is having a gun that can hit a popper at 25yrds. My $2,500 + blaster better be able to do better than that. But once you have a gun that is 100%, a decent rig, save yourself the headache of playing with all the new gadgets. Most of them you will regret even trying, trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Well said Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I think the most basic gear would do them better if they spent the $ on training instead. For a couple thousand K you could get some great training about what you real should be working on to reach your potential. Why do you assume it's an "either/or" case? Why not have the best gear AND training AND practice? A lot of people can afford it, so I don't see any point in them not getting really nice gear from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I think the most basic gear would do them better if they spent the $ on training instead. For a couple thousand K you could get some great training about what you real should be working on to reach your potential. Why do you assume it's an "either/or" case? Why not have the best gear AND training AND practice? A lot of people can afford it, so I don't see any point in them not getting really nice gear from the get go. Only because most can't, and I hate to see people wasting $$$. IPSC shooting has a fairly high attrition rate, and I just think it is better for people to give it a go for awhile to see how much they really like the sport, then make the huge investment in all the "good" stuff. I see too many people buy fancy guns, and then they can't afford bullets to shoot in them. Hey if money wasn't a factor, I would recommend something else, like hiring me to be your full time training partner For the average Joe, it is nice to know you "can" be competitive with simple gear if you work hard at it. For those that can afford it, they will buy the best anyways, so what's the point telling them to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Personally I don't believe many people on this forum are of the type who think they are going to buy their way to victory. However, I do see a lot of folks who spend more time screwing with equipment and loads than they do actually shooting. I shot L-10 with my Wilson Practical holster, a leather belt made in a local shop, and 4 IDPA type pouches of my own construction. Good quality gear, but I wanted more. Now I use a Ghost holster, a neat inner/outer belt combo, and 5 racey pouches of my own design and construction, perfectly matching the angle of my hand/arm when reaching for a mag. While I believe I gained a bit of confidence, my scores didn't reflect much improvement at all. Actual well thought out practice has achieved so much more. While I find it much more common in golf, equipment can become an expensive crutch that can leave the golfer/shooter permanently disabled. Again, I doubt there are many people on this forum who fall into that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I think Ron nailed it. Find gear that works for you (!!!), no matter how expensive or inexpensive it is. Guys like Miculek, Sevigny and Grauffel are living proof that $$$ does not equal better per se. They have gear that works for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I hate to see people wasting $$$. As a "newbie" myself, I think that the info from this forum has allowed me to feel confident I'm getting the advice and knowledge about the right equipment to buy, whether expensive or not. In the long run, by listening to all the "gear talk", I actually save money by not going in the wrong direction with equipment. So with that saved money, I buy more ammo, and shoot more. I haven't felt pushed to believe in the need of certain equipment as much as the possible benefits. It's true to say that the fancy stuff is not required and a luxury but it's also true that you can gain in performance with their addition. I see that there are some things you need to participate with and there are some things that give you an edge. Its nice to have an edge. New shooters may be caught up in getting the edge more to bring them up faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2299 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I'll add my $0.02 to this discussion... If one wants to stay in this "game" for the long run, it's often cheaper to spend the little extra to get the "right" gear the first time. Too often shooters(myself included) trying to save a few $$ in the begining go with some "look-a-like/feel-a-like" gear, but after a short time ended up buying the "right" ones anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 If one wants to stay in this "game" for the long run, it's often cheaper to spend the little extra to get the "right" gear the first time. I agree. I'm using the same gun and mags that I bought when I started three years ago. Best $700 I ever spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 kyle: You overspent. I am shooting a $300.00 CZ75B out of a Fobus holster. I have Uncle Mike's magazine holders on my regular old pants belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 You overspent. Nothing but the best for me baby!!! I am shooting a $300.00 CZ75B out of a Fobus holster. I have Uncle Mike's magazine holders on my regular old pants belt. Wow...how can you be competitive??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Wow...how can you be competitive??? I honestly thought that, but only in regards to the belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Wow...how can you be competitive??? That's a simple one. I shoot in Production against Glocks. Seriously, I think we all have good points. I honestly do shoot the rig I described in Production and yes I beat most of the guys shooting hi-cap Limited guns. OTOH, when I strap on my Open blaster, the rig costs more than many small cars, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Ron Is that a small car from Wyoming or one from Kalifornia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 That is one of the really nice things about this sport. You can spend a load of loot on your blaster, or not! While I tend toward simplicity in my own gear, I'm glad there is also a playground for those who want to jazz it up. I think you can be very competitive in any division, other than open, with an investment of less than $1,000. I truly believe anyone wishing to become a better shooter will come out way ahead by investing in ammo, range time, and shooting lessons from the GMs than by investing in expensive equipment. Truth is, I don't know too many people who can shoot better than a $800 handgun, but there are a few. If you have the money, go ahead and get yourself a really nice pistol. It makes way more sense than a sports car to me. Will it make you a better shooter? Only if you do your best to wear it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Is it OK if I just *like* the race gear better? The Glock and the Uncle Mike's feel pretty raw compared to an STI and an 011. Now that I'm getting older, drawing the gun from in front is just vastly more comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Definately OK, Erik! Go for the high end stuff. One day I'd like to own a custom 1911 or 2011 built by a big time 'smith. It would be my competition only gun. I'd keep it looking pretty too. I also dream of a 100% leather holster that gives up the gun as easily as Kydex. Come to think of it, if horse hide was that stiff and slick, we would have never learned to ride them. (Probably explains why I had so much trouble as a kid with that one down at the supermarket.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Now that I'm getting older. Older? LOL, you ain't that old yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Now that I'm getting older. Older? LOL, you ain't that old yet. Oh...but I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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