9mm Open - What is the latest and greatest

[Dang It Dan]

Ok,

So in the five years I have been gone, the 9mm has taken over the local matches. I went to a local match to see how folks were setting up these new blasters and it seemed there were so many different configurations. Some with four port comps, some with three. Some wanted more weight on the front, some were using titanium comps. Some had a lot of steel cut out of their slides, some didn't have any. The only thing that most agreed on was that no poppel holes were needed with the reduced gas from the 9.

I did get to shoot about three or four and only one kinda "felt" like my old Super. And that one (wouldn't you know it) was using a comp that's not in production any more.

So, I ask you, if you were building a new Open 9, what configuration would you use to keep the gun from being "flippy"?

Thanks Ahead of Time

Dan

[G-ManBart]

I'm not a huge fan of 9 Major, but if I was going to have one built I'd pick a gunsmith and talk with them about it rather than dictate the combination.

Some of the differences you saw were as much directed at balance/weight as at keeping the gun flat. Most of the good gunsmiths have a couple of combinations they use regularly and know to work well, but the total number of variables can add up quickly....slide length, barrel style, comp style, hybricomp, popple holes (some run them on 9 as well as Super/SC), etc, etc.

The biggest change in 9 Major guns has been the trend towards canted mounts (Barry, Cheely, Quinn...just going alphabetically there). They make a huge difference in letting the smith tune the ejection angle such that the gun extracts and ejects properly without bouncing cases off the scope mount (because it's not there). It's definitely something worth considering and I don't think I'd have a 9 Major gun built without one of those mounts after seeing the difference. R,

[Flyin40]

I'm not a huge fan of 9 Major, but if I was going to have one built I'd pick a gunsmith and talk with them about it rather than dictate the combination.

Some of the differences you saw were as much directed at balance/weight as at keeping the gun flat. Most of the good gunsmiths have a couple of combinations they use regularly and know to work well, but the total number of variables can add up quickly....slide length, barrel style, comp style, hybricomp, popple holes (some run them on 9 as well as Super/SC), etc, etc.

The biggest change in 9 Major guns has been the trend towards canted mounts (Barry, Cheely, Quinn...just going alphabetically there). They make a huge difference in letting the smith tune the ejection angle such that the gun extracts and ejects properly without bouncing cases off the scope mount (because it's not there). It's definitely something worth considering and I don't think I'd have a 9 Major gun built without one of those mounts after seeing the difference. R,

+1 on the mounts, I think if I ever went 9 it would be with a canted mount

Flyin

[Dang It Dan]

I'm not a huge fan of 9 Major, but if I was going to have one built I'd pick a gunsmith and talk with them about it rather than dictate the combination.

Some of the differences you saw were as much directed at balance/weight as at keeping the gun flat. Most of the good gunsmiths have a couple of combinations they use regularly and know to work well, but the total number of variables can add up quickly....slide length, barrel style, comp style, hybricomp, popple holes (some run them on 9 as well as Super/SC), etc, etc.

The biggest change in 9 Major guns has been the trend towards canted mounts (Barry, Cheely, Quinn...just going alphabetically there). They make a huge difference in letting the smith tune the ejection angle such that the gun extracts and ejects properly without bouncing cases off the scope mount (because it's not there). It's definitely something worth considering and I don't think I'd have a 9 Major gun built without one of those mounts after seeing the difference. R,

Thanks for the info. The only canted mount I have shot was on a super, and honestly it made the weight of the gun feel a bit off to me. As far as a combination of components go, that is exactly what I am looking for. I have had a chance to look and shoot a couple of 9's from some "named" smiths and wasn't necessarliy impressed.

This is nothing like my Super days when weight was a function of personal preference. There seems to be a real balancing act going here between the weight on each end of the gun and even the loads. I was looking for someone who had gone through this and had some thoughts on what to consider.

[Fireant]

I have two guns with a 3 port comp that likes a 125 hp and a little slower powder and one gun with a 4 port comp that likes a 115 hp with a faster powder. You will have to pick a smith, then something they use then develop a load that you like in the gun. All open guns are different. You might not like my set-up, but with a different load you might find something you love. It is like NASCAR the teams share the same basic set-up, but one driver wins the race with that set-up and the other finishes last. There is no one perfect set-up. Pick one that feels good to you, get it to recoil the way you like and go practice. When you wear it out you should know what you want in your next gun.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Fireant

[CocoBolo]

The best thing about the 9 mm open gun is how cheap it has made good old reliable 38 Super open guns. There are few builders that can make a 9 mm run, Bedell is one.

3 Local shooters purchased Steel Masters, these guys are doing extremely well shooting Winchester White box, they run and these guys have moved up two classes in a short period of time. Its the next best thing to a 22 lr conversion, almost no recoil or flip and Walmarts doing the loading.

[Rolex]

Jim Anglin send him an email:

jjanglin@msn.com I shoot one of his 9mm OPEN

guns, its 2 years old never a problem. I also shoot

with several others, that Jim has put into 9mm

OPEN guns-

[L9X25]

Dan,

Not that much has changed from the old days, there is still a lot of personal preference involved in the deal.

The changes that you will need to consider are that we are shooting a lower power factor so the reciprocating masses generally like to be a little lighter, to keep the gun crisp, and the 9mm means that you will have less gas (and fewer slow powder choices) to work the comp. The vast majority of folks have dropped back to 3 chamber comps and some of the newer guns from SV are down to 2 chambers.

Some folks like the quick shock of the Ti comps and others like steel to soften things some. Then you can reduce the slide weight on a steel comped gun and reach a happy medium. This is assuming that you have a bull barrel, going with a cone steel comp is another middle of the road alternative.

Good to see you back again.

[PaulW]

Well after a few years not competeing much I have gotten back into it. Shot a few matches and after seeing what brass, bullets, primers and all are selling for I knew I wanted to look at the 9mm again. I have owned a few 9 shorties and a 9 standard 5 inch gun. I shot a 9 bedell setup the same as my 9 super. Actually the 9 shot softer. Not sure what the chrono would say and it did have a touch more muzzle rise but it shot pretty soft. Now you can chase the perfect load, perfect gun and perfect setup only to find that there is no such thing. Pick one, pick a load and shoot the heck out of it. There are gives and takes for all the different setups.

[Dang It Dan]

Thanks all,

I think I am going to build a gun that I can "cut down" as I go. I may start with a four port comp and push the pressure as much as I can in order to get it to feel like a Super. The guns I used to shoot had a lot of felt recoil but almost no rise, very violent. The dot would vibrate inside the C-more, outside the C-more, the whole world shook, but the dot never left the target. This gun may stay in the the "white" for a while after it's finished until I get done cutting on it.

Again, thanks and it was good seeing some of my old crew this weekend.

[L9X25]

Thanks all,

I think I am going to build a gun that I can "cut down" as I go. I may start with a four port comp and push the pressure as much as I can in order to get it to feel like a Super. The guns I used to shoot had a lot of felt recoil but almost no rise, very violent. The dot would vibrate inside the C-more, outside the C-more, the whole world shook, but the dot never left the target. This gun may stay in the the "white" for a while after it's finished until I get done cutting on it.

Again, thanks and it was good seeing some of my old crew this weekend.

Dan,

With that said, you would likely be a fan of Ti comps, as they give the type of "feel" that you describe in your post. I cannot tell you how far the dot actually moves, because it's movement so fast and it is back to the original point so fast. The steel comp gives me a softer, slower and more trackable dot.

[Dang It Dan]

Dan,

With that said, you would likely be a fan of Ti comps, as they give the type of "feel" that you describe in your post. I cannot tell you how far the dot actually moves, because it's movement so fast and it is back to the original point so fast. The steel comp gives me a softer, slower and more trackable dot.

I understand, but I am a bit worried about the Ti comps cracking. I seem to remember hearing something along those lines.

[G-ManBart]

I understand, but I am a bit worried about the Ti comps cracking. I seem to remember hearing something along those lines.

Pretty much all comps will crack eventually (the steel comp on my oldest Open gun did). I have a Bedell Ti comp on my Bedell shorty and a Millennium Custom Ti cone comp on my MC gun and both have approx 12K through them so far with no problems. That's not a ton of rounds, but I wouldn't expect either to crack for multiple tens of thousands or rounds more. Worst case you're looking at $125 or so for a new one if it cracks.

The reason many folks go with Ti for the comp is if they're trying to balance the gun at a certain point and need to remove a little weight from the front.

[Dang It Dan]

I understand. I think I am going heavy on both ends right now (stainless ICE magwell and steel MS housing). I can start replacing parts depending on feel.

Dan

[GrumpyOne]

Ok,

So in the five years I have been gone, the 9mm has taken over the local matches. I went to a local match to see how folks were setting up these new blasters and it seemed there were so many different configurations. Some with four port comps, some with three. Some wanted more weight on the front, some were using titanium comps. Some had a lot of steel cut out of their slides, some didn't have any. The only thing that most agreed on was that no poppel holes were needed with the reduced gas from the 9.

I did get to shoot about three or four and only one kinda "felt" like my old Super. And that one (wouldn't you know it) was using a comp that's not in production any more.

So, I ask you, if you were building a new Open 9, what configuration would you use to keep the gun from being "flippy"?

Thanks Ahead of Time

Dan

They're still a lot of 38 supers out there. If you liked the feel of the super before, why switch to a 9mm? In all reality, it's not any cheaper to load (other than a few grains of powder here and there), the bullets are the same, you should get more life expectancy from your 38 super brass, as you aren't putting quite as much pressure on the case. The only advantage of 9mm I see is the inital cost of brass. 9mm can be found laying around all over the place (but, how many times has it already been shot?, or has it been Glocked?), while 38 super you're gonna have to buy. And, on the plus side of loading, you have quite a few more powder choices with a super. Just my .02......

[Dang It Dan]

Well G -

I went to a local match last weekend and something stuck me - no one was picking up brass, and I mean no one. In fact, you could always tell the Super or Supercomp shooters because they picked their own brass while the other folk taped targets and reset steel. The fact is that I remember right before I quit having to come home and gauge my range brass before I cleaned it, not to mention that if I shot 200 rounds that day in a match I was lucky to get half back. I don't expect to ever be where I was when I stopped, so I figure the difference in feel isn't going to make much difference at this point in my life. Why not make my life easier and save a buck or two in the process?

Edited September 29, 2009 by Dang It Dan

[Glockcomma]

I was looking into getting a Bedell gun built, Mike at Shooters Connection and Dan Bedell told me the life expectancy for a Ti comp. is about 50,000 rounds.

[Dang It Dan]

Thanks for that info. That's probably longer that I will shoot at this rate. Still, I am going to start with steel and move weight around until I get a feel that I like.

BTW, if it cracks before the 50K, will he replace it? (not really looking for an answer here). As always, your mileage may vary....

Thank again.

[L9X25]

Not claiming that my experience is the norm (I cut all of my own comps) but my failures usually happen pretty quickly. As is usually my experience with electronics, they fail pretty quickly or practically last forever.

[larry cazes]

Not claiming that my experience is the norm (I cut all of my own comps) but my failures usually happen pretty quickly. As is usually my experience with electronics, they fail pretty quickly or practically last forever.

Its called the bathtub curve in classical reliability....

[davecutts]

When you could get 9mm brass for 9-11 bucks a thousand 9mm sounded like a great idea, at 35-50 a thousand (50 for cleaned single head stamp) I'm sticking with my supercomp.

[smokshwn]

When you could get 9mm brass for 9-11 bucks a thousand 9mm sounded like a great idea, at 35-50 a thousand (50 for cleaned single head stamp) I'm sticking with my supercomp.

Free brass, gun runs without any extra brass prep or sorting, and best of all I never bend over to search and pick up my brass.

[Dang It Dan]

When you could get 9mm brass for 9-11 bucks a thousand 9mm sounded like a great idea, at 35-50 a thousand (50 for cleaned single head stamp) I'm sticking with my supercomp.

This wasn't meant to be a "which is best" thread. I just wanted some help designing a pistol I have never shot before. If all things were equal (like that ever happens) I would still be shooting my Super. I was just trying to stay out of trouble - again!

[GrumpyOne]

When you could get 9mm brass for 9-11 bucks a thousand 9mm sounded like a great idea, at 35-50 a thousand (50 for cleaned single head stamp) I'm sticking with my supercomp.

This wasn't meant to be a "which is best" thread. I just wanted some help designing a pistol I have never shot before. If all things were equal (like that ever happens) I would still be shooting my Super. I was just trying to stay out of trouble - again!

It's apples versus apples.....I like 38 super.....someone else likes 9mm.....you like?????? I was just trying to point out that supers (and alot of 9mm's are very reliable), the only real difference is the brass. I don't have a 9mm open, but there are alot of guys (and girls) shooting them. The only downside I've ever heard about them is getting it to run right at first. Course, then again, that can be a problem with a super as well!

[davecutts]

Copy that on the which is best (don't get me started on how I feal about that), I was just pointing out that from an economic standpoint if one were to pick up their brass three times (and I've shot some allot more than that) super or supercomp comes out even or well ahead, at a penny or less each it wasn't worth it to pick up 9mm, but at five cents each it's getting tempting.