hammer back while holstered at make ready

[gohuskers]

Don't know of any rule prohibiting but it just seems unsafe and unsound. Like chef said if you need to "feel" your trigger release you ought to acquaint yourself with it at home.

[Chris Keen]

Don't know of any rule prohibiting but it just seems unsafe and unsound. Like chef said if you need to "feel" your trigger release you ought to acquaint yourself with it at home.

What's wrong with pulling the trigger on an empty gun? We all know the rules. They say that we operate on a cold range. With all the layers of safety we have the gun can NEVER be loaded. should not be loaded. I guess if it's the very first stage and a new competitor brought a gun with a round in the chamber, then maybe ...... but if you cleared your gun at ULASC on the last stage, you should be unloaded on MR of this stage. Plus if a shooter draws said gun and points it downrange, then pulls the trigger, and it goes bang, everyone should still be safe, since it was pointed downrange. Right? So I don't see the problem with pulling the trigger. The gun goes click, or the gun goes bang, and THAT shooter goes home.

If we prohibit this too, then we just get another step closer to IPSC.

[Corey]

I take a sight picture and drop the hammer on an empty chamber on every stage. just part of me getting ready. i dont do a draw at full speed (thats what dryfire is for), but its mainly to get myself seeing what i need to on the first target of the stage, assuming its visible from the start point. That being said, i unholster and rack my gun a couple of times EVERY TIME, just to make sure its unloaded and to give the RO a chance to see its still unloaded from the last stage.

I dont see anything wrong with either idea, taking a sight picture or pulling the trigger before you actually load up. However, while it is something I do in dryfire occasionally, I dont like the idea of cocking the hammer when you walk up to the line then draw and take your sight picture and pulling the trigger. Maybe its OCD, maybe its being too cautious, but when im at a match i always want to know if my chamber is empty before I pull the trigger. I'm trying to fight the law of everyone gets DQ'd sooner or later.

[Gary Stevens]

perfectly legal, don't see the purpose. if you don't know what your trigger feels like, should dry fire at home more often.

+1

...and taking a sight picture is just that...taking a sight picture. Trigger testing should be done in the safe area or while dry firing at home.

Part of "Make ready", IMO.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Gary Stevens

[lcs]

I wanted to get your guys opinion before I had my say. If it were up to me I would not allow it. I think it's a breach in safety protocol. Looking at the rules, I don't see any way for me to prevent it, but that doesn't man I have to agree with it.

JT

JT,

What don't you agree with: (1) After Make Ready, taking a sight picture and dropping the hammer ? or

(2) Hammer back while holstered after make ready?

[Team Amish 1]

No rule against it.

If the RO gets "nervous" by it, not the shooter's problem.

[BritinUSA]

Slight thread drift; When I first started shooting in IPSC, back in 1989 or something. The Load and Make Ready was a little different.

At the LAMR command, the shooter pulled the gun from the holster, inserted a magazine, racked the slide and re-holstered. There were no sight pictures, you could not pull the hammer back and press the trigger. Load the gun and get ready... The entire process took about 5 seconds to complete.

Nowadays it's different; Sight pictures on multiple targets, adjusting dot brightness, inserting and releasing every magazine on your belt just in case you might need it, dry-firing, etc. etc...

Its becoming a bit of a joke to me. Load the damn gun, already... !

[Team Amish 1]

Well, USPSA is not IPSC but you have a point. Some shooters push it a little with their 30 seconds of slide racking, getting into position, stretching, getting back in position, etc.

The problem is that there's no rule against it.

A little common sense by all shooters may prevent the necessity to install another rule. We'll see.

[JThompson]

I wanted to get your guys opinion before I had my say. If it were up to me I would not allow it. I think it's a breach in safety protocol. Looking at the rules, I don't see any way for me to prevent it, but that doesn't man I have to agree with it.

JT

JT,

What don't you agree with: (1) After Make Ready, taking a sight picture and dropping the hammer ? or

(2) Hammer back while holstered after make ready?

I'm not real "Keen" on the hammer back with no safety in the holster at make ready.

[JThompson]

Slight thread drift; When I first started shooting in IPSC, back in 1989 or something. The Load and Make Ready was a little different.

At the LAMR command, the shooter pulled the gun from the holster, inserted a magazine, racked the slide and re-holstered. There were no sight pictures, you could not pull the hammer back and press the trigger. Load the gun and get ready... The entire process took about 5 seconds to complete.

Nowadays it's different; Sight pictures on multiple targets, adjusting dot brightness, inserting and releasing every magazine on your belt just in case you might need it, dry-firing, etc. etc...

Its becoming a bit of a joke to me. Load the damn gun, already... !

I know one guy who takes forever doing that shit. I'd like to get a entire squad in on a punk for him. After he gets to the insert every mag part of his routine the entire squad yells, "HURRY UP MAX!" Max, I love ya buddy, but hurry the fk up!

JT

Edited February 15, 2011 by JThompson

[RAZZ]

At the 2010 FL State match, the staff went so far as to write it into each stage description that thumbing the hammer back in the holster at the MR command would result in a DQ. It was the first time most of us ever heard of such a thing, and I'm sure some guys who frequently do it had to be on their toes.

[Skydiver]

At the 2010 FL State match, the staff went so far as to write it into each stage description that thumbing the hammer back in the holster at the MR command would result in a DQ. It was the first time most of us ever heard of such a thing, and I'm sure some guys who frequently do it had to be on their toes.

What rule supports that?

[lcs]

I wanted to get your guys opinion before I had my say. If it were up to me I would not allow it. I think it's a breach in safety protocol. Looking at the rules, I don't see any way for me to prevent it, but that doesn't man I have to agree with it.

JT

JT,

What don't you agree with: (1) After Make Ready, taking a sight picture and dropping the hammer ? or

(2) Hammer back while holstered after make ready?

I'm not real "Keen" on the hammer back with no safety in the holster at make ready.

I don't see the purpose either, but it is legal. It also takes to much time.

[Carmoney]

Its becoming a bit of a joke to me. Load the damn gun, already... !

I completely agree. I cannot stand the time-wasting masturbatory bullcrap that some shooters insist on doing after the make ready command. It's incredibly rude to the other shooters on the squad, and to the next squad who is standing there waiting.

[BritinUSA]

I feel sorry for the RO... They have to stand there with a timer watching all this nonsense.

[Flexmoney]

Having run a lot of shooter and read a lot of forums...

The original question here seems answered and this thread is drifting into "time-wasting masturbatory bullcrap."

Closed.

[AlamoShooter]

I can not think of "Anything Good coming out of" cocking the hammer in the holster.

Even if we did not have a fairly good rule book, I learned young if nothing good is going to come out of an action {Don't Do It}

Doing it in the holster at the MR and the logic of the DQ as per the rules IS the same as putting it in the holster with out the safety on.

(This is why I _think they have that train of thought.

A> If the gun was drooped after the MR and before the Range is Clear < it would be a DQ

B> The gun is 'considered' loaded at all times after the MR = so a cocked hammer with out the safety on in the holster would have to result in a DQ.

I don't see any other way of interpreting the rules.

But I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer

So don't close the thread too soon

Edited February 15, 2011 by AlamoShooter

[Flexmoney]

I don't see any other way of interpreting the rules.

So don't close the thread too soon

OK...open still, for RULE questions.

Folks, please stay off the drift about how long a shooter takes to MR.

- Admin.

[sperman]

At the 2010 FL State match, the staff went so far as to write it into each stage description that thumbing the hammer back in the holster at the MR command would result in a DQ. It was the first time most of us ever heard of such a thing, and I'm sure some guys who frequently do it had to be on their toes

3.2.5 A written stage briefing must comply with the current USPSA rules

I'm assuming this was a USPSA match. I would think a level 2 match would know you can't use the WSB to make up rules.

[Chris Keen]

At the 2010 FL State match, the staff went so far as to write it into each stage description that thumbing the hammer back in the holster at the MR command would result in a DQ. It was the first time most of us ever heard of such a thing, and I'm sure some guys who frequently do it had to be on their toes

3.2.5 A written stage briefing must comply with the current USPSA rules

I'm assuming this was a USPSA match. I would think a level 2 match would know you can't use the WSB to make up rules.

+1 We can't just make stuff up.

[sfinney]

Whether this is technically against the rules or not, I just don't see the value added in the habit. Someone is going to pop one off in his leg with his "unloaded" gun someday, manipulating the hammer of his gun, in the holster.

Maybe not at a match, where everyone is hyper sensitive to the cold range, but maybe in practice. If in the holster the hammer slips off of a thumb, or falls, before the safety is applied and the "empty" gun goes off, it would be pretty self critiquing.

A 1911 requires a safety on to be considered safe when holstered.

A gun is always loaded.

Never point a gun at something you don't want to destroy.

Why tempt fate?

[whitedog]

Ok, another noob question. Why would someone do this? Is there a benefit? Or just ritual?

[Chris Keen]

Whether this is technically against the rules or not, I just don't see the value added in the habit. Someone is going to pop one off in his leg with his "unloaded" gun someday, manipulating the hammer of his gun, in the holster.

Maybe not at a match, where everyone is hyper sensitive to the cold range, but maybe in practice. If in the holster the hammer slips off of a thumb, or falls, before the safety is applied and the "empty" gun goes off, it would be pretty self critiquing.

A 1911 requires a safety on to be considered safe when holstered.

A gun is always loaded.

Never point a gun at something you don't want to destroy.

Why tempt fate?

Sean I think you've got a good point here. It might not be against the rules, and it might not happen at a match, as you said. But if a shooter develops the habit where we allow it (right or wrong) then they will practice what they have learned, and knowing a practice environment is not really a "cold range" they might circumvent the multiple layers of safety that we have implemented at USPSA matches across the country. This could easily spell disaster at the worst possible time too ..... when the shooter is by himself at the range, and possibly unable to call for help.

[Singlestack]

Ok, another noob question. Why would someone do this? Is there a benefit? Or just ritual?

So they can drop the hammer on the dry fire sight picture.

I don't see it as a big deal. For those complaining about taking too much time at LMAR, it actually ia a time saving thing. One less draw...

(sorry Kyle )

[Avezorak]

I agree with the statement that a cocked gun off safe is the holster is an unsound practice. It doesnt take that long to confirm that the chamber is empty, apply safety and reholster before taking a sight picture.

I know 2 guys who shot themselves with "unloaded" guns. Better safe than sorry