How much practice is enough?

[jester]

At a bare minimum, how often (actual shooting not just dry firing) and how many rounds are necessary to improve one's skills and maintain skills already developed?

[Duane Thomas]

That's a difficult question, and this may not be the answer you want, but I'm not at all convinced that live fire is really that important in the overall scheme of things. In me 'umble opinion anyway, dry fire is far, FAR more important to maintaining, and especially improving, your skill level than live fire.

Example: for one reason or another, mostly conflicts between my girlfriend's work schedule and use of our one car, there was recently about a four month period where I didn't fire any USPSA matches. I was terrified that when I got back into it I'd be totally flat. So to compensate I started seriously dry firing. And when I say "seriously" I mean like two or three hours a night, four or five nights a week for four months. Except for a minor amount of slow fire shooting while teaching classes, during this entire time I did no live fire practice at all.

So here I am, a B class shooter who wants his A. My first match back into it, after not firing a match or live fire practicing at all for four months, amazingly enough I fire an A class score on the classifier. My next match I fire a Master score on the classifier. This gets me my A, BTW. The next match is a classifier match. I manage to pull two As (one almost Master) and one M out of it.

Now in the past few weeks I've gotten into live firing regularly as well. Understand I'm not saying you don't need to live fire - obviously there are two important pieces of the puzzle, live fire and dry fire. If you want to be great you have to do both. These days I'm going to the range once or twice a week, a couple of hundred rounds per session. I'm just saying that while dry fire isn't the entire puzzle by itself, it is far and away the most important piece. Very little of your improvement comes during live fire - this is more how you check where you are. The improvement, the real work, comes from your dry fire.

Most USPSA/IPSC/IDPA shooters don't dry fire nearly enough. And that's because most shooters find dry fire extremely boring. But if you want to be great, that's the price you pay. Personally - and I consider myself lucky in this regard - I enjoy dry firing. Especially once you begin to figure things out, you get the frequent insights that improve your performance, you can see that the dry fire is making a difference, that's when it gets really fun.

[Steve Anderson]

I agree with duane completely, whole-heartedly and unreservedly! I can't emphasize it enough. I've go a 60 minute DF schedule that I do every night I don't shoot a match or live fire.

This is my first full season of IPSC, and I expect to get a B card in about a month, by the way.

Classifiers don't scare me anymore, and I look forward to one handed stages... Confidence  creates success.

Put in an hour a day, mix it up, and you'll be amazed. Take the things you hate to do, and do them 100 times a night. Soon there won't be anything you can't do.

BTW, my routine stresses finding the front sight over pulling the trigger in all par time drills. That helps greatly.

SA

[jester]

So, if dry firing is so important, why then is dry firing so hard on some guns?  SHouldn't all modern handguns stand up to 1000's upon 1000's of dry fires?

[Flexmoney]

Jester..who says the dry-firing is hard on your gun?  If it is...buy a Glock and dry-fire to your heart's content.

I think DT ans SA are on to something...dry-fire is very important.  Any, and all, gun handling is important.

I can't get to the range as often as I'd like...at least, not a range that I can fire the drills that I think would help me the most.  I reached a point in my shooting where I thought I need to really do some range shooting (transitions and splits).  

Somewhere along the line...I let my dry fire practice fade away.  I have been paying for it in poor performance.

Range time is important...but, dry fire is vital.

[bonedaddy]

Jester, ditto on what everyone said so far.  

How much practice is enough?   That depends on how important shooting is to you.  Before you can say how much is enough, you need to decide what you will have to give up in order to become as good as you want to be.  If you are a young, single, guy with a good job and no serious relationships that require your attention, your time is more your own.   If you are a single parent holding down two jobs, then it has to be different.

     I am a husband, a father, and a son to my aging mother.  I have a job to do, and bills to pay, and friends that sometimes need to talk.   The shooting is my own selfish indulgence, and it's what I do when all my other responsibilities are satisfied.   My life is so richly blessed in so many ways that I really don't know what else to ask for.   I guess I'm saying that I could never become a good enough shooter to make me happy.    But, by keeping my commitments in perspective, I'm happy.  And so I shoot.  Please, take time to think about this.

                       -Sam

[DogmaDog]

I'll offer an outside of IPSC perspective.

In the Marine Corps, most Marines get to go to the rifle range for one week per year.  They zero and practice on Mon, Tues, Wed, and then qualify on Thurs.  

Under this scheme, I have no trouble maintaining my "Expert" proficiency with a rifle, but I don't improve, and I don't think many Marines do, either.  I also don't think "Expert" is really all that great, compared to, NRA's highpower rifle classifications.  

I complain about this scheme of things, and I'm often told that shooting a rifle is like riding a bicycle.  It is.  And the guys who win bicycle races are the ones who are out there every day training their asses off.  

Anyway, I would think that frequent, short dry fire sessions would be best for sustainment, and that some harder, longer training would be needed for improvement.  You could easily get away with a 10:1 dry:live fire ratio, and still do well, I think.

Also, the Marines dry fire the hell out of every weapon in the inventory.  While the triggers ARE disgusting, I don't think it's because of dryfiring.  I wouldn't worry about dryfiring most centerfire guns.  In rimfire weapons, though, the firing pin may impact against the edge of the breech, and deform as a result.

Semper Fi,

DogmaDog

[davecutts]

Jester:

I have never been athletically inclined, however I do like this action shooting stuff.  That said I se in my own performance some thing a kin to dogmadog's example.  If I don't dry firer all week, come Friday night I spend an hour dry firing I do okay.  I'd rather do better than okay, so I like to spend at a minimum two ten to fifteen minute sessions everyday, and in a good week I'll get in a couple of hour/hour and a half sessions.  I feel a lot of it has to do with confidence along with skill.  For instance I now know I can make a good clean, quick reload, before I was pretty sure.

[Ron Ankeny]

I agree dry fire is important. However, I need trigger time too. I have been going to the range four or five times a week and I shoot a couple of hundred rounds per trip. I am working on shooting on the move, shooting as soon as I "get there", etc. and I am trying to call all of my shots.

Lots of dry fire helped to get me to A class, but now it is time to go on to Master. For me, I need live fire to experience the timing and impulse of the pistol, to make effective transitions, to call the shot, and so on. Guess I am in the minority here.

[old shooter]

Jester,

  While I agree with most of what Duane (et al) say, I happen to believe that firing live rounds has more importance than they do. I remember reading sometime back an experiment with basketball.  The university conducting the experiment took randon students and placed them into 3 groups. Group one practiced shooting hoops dailey, group 2 didn't practice at all, and group 3 visualized shooting hoops the same time that group 1 physically shot hoops.  As expected, Group 1 got better, group 2 stayed the same, but group 3 nearly equaled the group one improvement.  While experimenting with different techniques when dryfiring is important, when you do them with live rounds and a timer, there can be no question if what you are trying to do is working or not.  I think that a balance of both is important, and I believe that many short sessions are preferable to a marathon session.  I think that 100 daily rounds are much better than 1000 on Sat.

[BSeevers]

Jester I agree with the above. It depends on your goals and current level of skill. You cannot think your way to the Nationals win BUT neither will shooting 50,000 rounds guarantee it either.

Always remember to practice the correct techniques. This includes visualization practice. We become what we think we are. If you spend all your time practicing close open targets and see yourself shooting fast. That's what you become good at. Big matches have many partial, moving and far away targets.

You will "become" what you practiced. This really comes in to play as you progress.

I am sure you have heard golfers say "its all in the mind after you can shoot par" IPSC is just like this. BUT first you must master the fundamentals to put this into practice.

Put some rounds downrange. It works. I see this on tee shirts. "If you are not practicing somewhere someone else is and when you meet him he will beat you"

I can't say how many rounds you actually need to shoot but I will be shooting at least 2500 before the Limited 10 Nationals. I shoot Limited once a year and shoot a lot more Open rounds.  I am now at the level where I may take the Open gun to practice and only shoot head shots and noshoot blocked targets if I feel that's what I need to improve on. Sometimes I shoot 5 yard Bill drills all day. I do go with a goal and expectation. I also know my times on various drills and try different techniques to change or improve.

PS I don't know how many dry fires my gun has but I would guess around 300,000??. Don't worry you won't hurt your gun

(Edited by BSeevers at 5:01 pm on June 22, 2002)

[Duane Thomas]

No question there are some things you simply can't master dry fire. The big one that comes to mind is using recoil energy to move the gun from target to target.

While we're talking about tests we heard were done in the past, I've got this one: a police academy decided to conduct an experiment to determine the relative importance of dry fire versus live fire. They took a class of recruits and broke them down into three groups. The first group, the control group, just did things the traditional way, a combination of dry and live fire. The second group did everything dry fire, and never fired a live round until the day of qualification. The third group was never allowed to dry fire, they did everything with live ammo. Came qualification day, to absolutely no one's surprise, the group that did things with a combination of dry and live fire did the best. What was surprising to some people was that the group that did everything dry fire, and never fired a round of live ammo until the day of the qualification, outshot the group that did everything with live ammo.

This may be a apocryphal tale, but as the old saying goes, "If it ain't true, it ought to be."

[bird]

Jester

Dry fire 'til the cows come home.

It is cheap and it doesn't get your gun dirty.

Even the big dawgs dry fire,

especially before a BIG match.

And don't let anyone tell you they don't......

[Phil Dunlop]

Bird,

I normally dry fire while I get the cows in

Doesn't make them walk any faster, and all those dings on the petrol tank from the reloads cost me at trade in time but it is time well spent.

P.D.

[kaiserb]

I try to make time to draw and dry fire 6 round 100 times each night.  It usually takes about 45 minutes.

[oldfella]

Bonedaddy... above all, I like your perspective on life, family and your pursuit of happiness... shooting the hell out of the bullseye comes second.  I like your style!

[shred]

Ted Bonnet once told me to dry-fire 10 times for every live-fire shot. Of course I've been studiously ignoring that advice, but that's why he's won a couple of world shoots and I haven't (or so I tell myself.. )

Another handy dry-fire tip he had is to hold the sight picture for a couple of heartbeats after dropping the hammer. Gets you away from the "Yeah, that was an A in 0.7" mentality if you _really see_ where the sights were aligned.

[benos]

Jester,

You've got to put in the range time to learn to respond to what is actually happening when you're pulling the trigger. Dry firing is for training repetitious physical techniques; live fire is for synchronizing "response skills" that arise only when you are actually shooting. They're both important - especially in the beginning.  

In the beginning, I shot as much as time and wallet would allow. And, I dry-fired like crazy. Every night and a lot. As years went by and my skills became more second nature, I could get away with less time at the range, but I still dry-fired a lot. Especially before a match.

be

[Steve Moneypenny]

I think what is MOST important is not how much you practice, (dry fire or live fire) it is HOW your practice. you can shoot 1000 rounds in 2 days and get nothing from it, or you can shoot 100 rounds in 8 hours and learn a tremendous deal.

same with dry firing.

something else to help the learning curve.. hang out with the best shooters you can, you will get better, if they are good people they will want you to improve, you can push each other.

steve

[Luiz Francisco Ramos]

And what about this?? :

At the end of each Match, stay alone whit a paper and remember on each stage that the things do wrong, what wekness you felt there, write it. Remember the positions of the targets you miss, the loss of time, strategy? reload? long distances targets? weak and? write it!

And this is your plan to pratice until the next match, no matter how many rounds it will need to fix all weakness.

If you don´t fix it, in the next match, it will repeat and you will fail again and again.

Now, the great tip: The things that disturb you in the the match are the same that will disturb you in the pratice, so when you finish that pratice you must be sad, tired, worry, furious... If at the end of your pratice you will happy and satisfied, then you don´t pratice anything, just have a few moments of fun...

[davecutts]

Of course most of this has been about trigger time is helpful for improvement.  But the big part about getting better (in my humble opinion, and it's been said before) is the time you aren't on the trigger.  Movement, setting up into a shooting position, you know working the stage. Some of which can be practiced at home and on the range, but some things just come from  match experience.

My $0.02

[BBoyle]

In My Opinion

Dry firing is probably the most important confidence builder for shooting.

I was working a job where I could barely afford to buy reloading components and shoot the local matches.  I saved all I could to buy a used open gun which the former owner let me pay off in installments.

I was not a club member and could not afford to live fire.

Dry firing for 15 minutes to 30 minutes a day for 3-4 days a week was what got me my master card.   I had practiced no more than 3 times with friends in the time I started shooting open to when I made master.

I think the drive that you have also has to help. I was OBSESSED with shooting.   I would walk down hallways at work, and when no-one was around, grip a pen or pencil and bring it up and place the point onto pictures on both sides and at the end of the hallway.  All the while making "tcha tcha" sounds with my mouth simulating shots.  I did get caught afew times running by people in other offices.  talk about embarrasing.

I ate, drank, and slept IPSC 24 hours a day.

When I finally joined a club and could afford to practice I became more consistant and  more confident.

Sorry about the long post but I am proof that dry fire alone can get you pretty far.

Brian

[mcoliver]

Hi, guys.  I carry a glock for self-defense and recently switched to a 1911 for competition.  Since getting my 1911 I have been dry-firing very extensively (relatively, to some of you 1-2 hrs a night 7 days a week.)  I noted, however, that everytime I handle my glock I now point it a bit high.  My question is, how do you alternate your sessions with your other guns?  Do you practice on more than one gun in every dry fire session? Lastly, do you find it awkward to alternate between your concealment holster (behind the hip at 4 o'clock) and your speed holster (usualy in front of the hip)? Or is it all just mind-set...say competition-mode ON 3 times when donning the race gear Thanks.

[Duane Thomas]

Just me 'umble opinion here, but I think that in order to shoot your best you need to have an instant, unfailing index of the gun on target when you bring it up to eye level. And that, unfortunately, translates into "beware the man with one gun." If you're totally grooved-in on a particular gun, say your 1911, your index is going to be off when you switch to another gun with a differently sized grip/grip angle. If you want to be great, you need to pick one gun and do at least 95 percent of your shooting with it. Switching back and forth ain't gonna make it. Just my $.02.

Why not use your Glock in USPSA Production class? Or start carrying the 1911. In either event, pick one and then go to town on it.

[Flexmoney]

Adding an arched main-spring-housing to the 1911 may help some.