FillYerHands Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 My 12-year-old son recently started coming to the range with me, shooting my G17. I have been shooting since 1992 and competing since 1993, so he has been to more than one match with me, and finally decided he wanted to come shoot with me. We have known since he started playing baseball 6 years ago that he is left eye dominant. He is right handed, and for a baseball batter this is actually a good thing. When he started shooting he Daisy BB gun a few years back we solved the rifle problem by training him to shoot left handed. So when he took the pistol for the first time, he shot left handed. My question is, should I get him to change to shoot pistols right handed but aim with the left eye? For me the issue is not "cross dominance" since this has been proven to be a non issue by a lot of good shooters. I am concerned about future complications - drawing the gun with a non-dominant arm, pressing the mag release, etc. Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I'd suggest having him try it both ways (left- and right-handed) and let him decide which he prefers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have the same issue, I shoot right handed and am left eye dominant. I wish I would have learned to shoot left handed.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) I have the same issue. I shoot right-handed and don't have problems if I use the tape on the lenses thing. Other things to consider if moving to Left-Hand. 1. It may be tough to get the holster you want in LH configuration. 2. Most shooters are RH, most stage designs are done by RH shooters. Therefore most stages have a RH bias. 3. Increased learning curve. Most of us grow up performing complex movement with the strong hand so it may take longer to get a grasp on the basics. 4. Reloads may be a problem hitting the mag-release (depends on the gun and if the mag-release is swappable, ie. Tanfoglio). Edited July 16, 2009 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendytww Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have the same issue. I shoot right-handed and don't have problems if I use the tape on the lenses thing. Other things to consider if moving to Left-Hand. 1. It may be tough to get the holster you want in LH configuration. 2. Most shooters are RH, most stage designs are done by RH shooters. Therefore most stages have a RH bias. 3. Increased learning curve. Most of us grow up performing complex movement with the strong hand so it may take longer to get a grasp on the basics. 4. Reloads may be a problem hitting the mag-release (depends on the gun and if the mag-release is swappable, ie. Tanfoglio). I am new to shooting (1 year) and I chose to shoot left handed as a left eye dom and right handed person. The tape thing would just annoy my OCDishness and I feel a lot more in control left handed. I got the holster I wanted pretty easy but I did have to wait a little while longer for it. I have only a little experience but I find some stages designed for RH don't account for LH shooters and sometimes that actually makes things easier for LH. It can go both ways. I have experienced a high learning curve as my manual dexterity is not as good in my LH but I have also seen the benefit of that practice in my left hand. I can now do things with my left hand that I never could before and I am using it more and more in everyday life. My mag release was swapable so that wasn't an issue. Just my 2 cents as a newbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Cross dominance is not the problem that many people make it out to be. Turn your head one inch to the right to line up the left eye with the sights. Wow, "problem" solved! National and World champion Dave Sevigny is cross dominant (right hand/left eye). Our host Brian Enos is also cross dominant (right hand/left eye). Come to that, I'm cross dominant (right hand/left eye). I would never knowingly choose to shoot with my less dextrous hand if I had any choice in the matter at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) Cross dominance is not the problem that many people make it out to be. Turn your head one inch to the right to line up the left eye with the sights. Wow, "problem" solved! National and World champion Dave Sevigny is cross dominant (right hand/left eye). Our host Brian Enos is also cross dominant (right hand/left eye). Come to that, I'm cross dominant (right hand/left eye). I would never knowingly choose to shoot with my less dextrous hand if I had any choice in the matter at all. I would just have him shoot left handed. If you want to have him shoot right handed all he has to do is move the gun over in front of the left eye. I wouldn't suggest having him turn his head because it can lead to other issues. You want everything pretty much square to the target. I'm left handed and did the tape over the non dominant eye and it worked great but eventually tried just moving the gun over and it works. As far as other issues with being left handed like mag releases it easy, you just use your trigger finger to reloads. Flyin Edited July 17, 2009 by Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Non issue. I'm right hand/left eye dominant. While not in the same skill group as the above mentioned, I don't feel that I give anything up. The gun just comes up in front of my dominant eye, no head tilt or head turn. Not worth your worry IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I don't suggest turning your head because it can lead to other issues. Such as? If it's a choice between turning my head slightly or compromising my arm position, I'm turning my head slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I don't suggest turning your head because it can lead to other issues. Such as? If it's a choice between turning my head slightly or compromising my arm position, I'm turning my head slightly. Duane, Your visual perception changes along with your peripheral vision. It also can lead to problems with the stance. You'll find if you start moving your head some it will end up being more than an inch especially if you a beginner. You can start really canting your head and even turning your shoulders without realizing it. Moving the gun over doesn't compromise the arm position at all. Your only moving the gun over a couple inches to your dominant eye which is what Dave S. does. Worst case senario is your draw is a .10 slower because you have to move the gun alittle farther. It might work for you if you do that but you been shooting a long time and understand what your doing. The post was meant for his son who is a beginner. He could be shooting with his head turned slightly and end up really canted and him not even realize whats going on. Keeping square to the target will give a solid stance until he starts to understand whats going on. Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cold Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Right hand, left eye here, never had an issue with it, but I have been working on it for awhile now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Your visual perception changes along with your peripheral vision. But if I turn my eye so that I'm still looking straight at the sights, I'm not using my peripheral vision, right? I'm still going to say it works better to turn your head rather than change the arm position. There is nothing more important to fast and accurate shooting than how the gun tracks in recoil. Turning my head doesn't change that; changing my arm position does. As you said, I've been doing this for awhile. Early on I had to make a choice on whether or not to compromise on my head position or my arm position. I chose head position, and I've never regretted that. I have noticed, by the way, that recently my head has been straightening out more as I aim. I see this in photos taken for articles. I used to have my right arm flexed slightly more outward than the left. Now I notice it's the opposite way around. Not quite sure what's causing that, I think it's a natural, subconscious evolution of my technique over time. And honestly I'm not sure it even really matters that I ever do figure it out. It only matters that what I'm doing works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Check out the difference in head position between pic 1 (taken a few years ago) and pic 2 (taken a few months ago), and the difference in arm position between both those and pic 5 (taken about two months) ago. Also note in pic 5 there's much less of that "lowering my head so I'm looking through the top of my glasses" garbage we see in pic 2. This is the sort of thing that makes it hard to give definitive answers to technique questions: the active shooter's technique is in a constant state of evolution. http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?...albumId=1465871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDOUBLETAP Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Right handed and left eyed. I use my right hand and have no issues, just have him use both eyes while shooting. Thats how I do it and I don't need to turn my head funny or anything... I would hate shooting left handed all the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I've gone through this twice with my wife and then recently with my 14 year old daughter. I solved it in 5 minutes of instruction. Right hand, left eye. Close the left eye. Draw and present the gun to the right eye. Stay in that position, close the right eye and open the left and move the gun over to the left eye. Then I had her re-holster and draw and present the sights to her left eye. She drew and turned her head about an inch to the right... done. I walked her through the concept and then let her body make the adjustment naturally. She turned her head an inch. She's small for a 14 year old girl, and any compromise in her grip, stance, or trigger pull is instantly magnified in the gun. She can't muscle it around. For a 12 year old new shooter, don't compromise the grip, stance or trigger pull to keep their head straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Check out the difference in head position between pic 1 (taken a few years ago) and pic 2 (taken a few months ago), and the difference in arm position between both those and pic 5 (taken about two months) ago. Also note in pic 5 there's much less of that "lowering my head so I'm looking through the top of my glasses" garbage we see in pic 2. This is the sort of thing that makes it hard to give definitive answers to technique questions: the active shooter's technique is in a constant state of evolution.http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?...albumId=1465871 Maybe your technique is unconciously moving the gun over I can notice a difference from pic 1 and 2. You can't really notice a head turn on 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I'm right-handed but shoot with my left eye. I would strongly recommend having him shoot with his dominant and more dextrous right hand. Learning to shoot a handgun well is hard enough without creating the extra handicap of using the weak hand to draw and control the gun. I don't think he will ever be as good shooting weak-handed all the time as he could be using his strong hand. (Sorry Wendy, gotta call 'em as I see 'em.....) And Craig, shooting with both eyes open is only an option for those lucky shooters who have an eye that is strongly dominant. I have never been able to shoot with both eyes open all the way, I get all kinds of crazy double-vision stuff happening--and believe me I've tried everything. It's also important to remember that eye dominance sometimes changes over time. When I first started shooting twenty-some years ago I was slightly left-eye dominant, and compensated by using my left eye to line up the sights. Now I'm slightly right-eye dominant, and I'm fairly convinced I would be better off using my right eye like the majority of right-handed shooters. Of course, old habits die the hardest, particularly for those who don't have a lot of time to practice "new" techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendytww Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) I'm right-handed but shoot with my left eye. I would strongly recommend having him shoot with his dominant and more dextrous right hand. Learning to shoot a handgun well is hard enough without creating the extra handicap of using the weak hand to draw and control the gun. I don't think he will ever be as good shooting weak-handed all the time as he could be using his strong hand. (Sorry Wendy, gotta call 'em as I see 'em.....) And Craig, shooting with both eyes open is only an option for those lucky shooters who have an eye that is strongly dominant. I have never been able to shoot with both eyes open all the way, I get all kinds of crazy double-vision stuff happening--and believe me I've tried everything. It's also important to remember that eye dominance sometimes changes over time. When I first started shooting twenty-some years ago I was slightly left-eye dominant, and compensated by using my left eye to line up the sights. Now I'm slightly right-eye dominant, and I'm fairly convinced I would be better off using my right eye like the majority of right-handed shooters. Of course, old habits die the hardest, particularly for those who don't have a lot of time to practice "new" techniques. I am not very dextrous with any hand... but I am determined! Besides, I could always switch later and have a wicked "weak" hand either way. Edited July 17, 2009 by Wendytww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I am not very dextrous with any hand... but I am determined! Besides, I could always switch later and have a wicked "weak" hand either way. Plus you never know when you might lose an arm in an unfortunate smelting accident or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendytww Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hey, I stay well away from the Turkey Fryer when smelting happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Maybe your technique is unconciously moving the gun over Don't think the idea hasn't occurred to me. If I had to guess, I'd say it has more to do with my recent switch to a more bent arms position, and that the position of the "undendable arm" (see other posts for a discussion of that) just happens to be slightly more flex for my left arm than my right, which naturally brings the gun a bit to left of center. On the other hand, do I really want to insert my conscious mind into the natural evolution of my technique, by really trying to figure out here what's happening? I do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Worst case senario is your draw is a .10 slower because you have to move the gun alittle farther. Hmmmmm....thus far my fastest draw has been clocked at .86 second without compromsing my arm/gun position, just turning my head instead. I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 For a 12 year old, now is the time to learn, from scratch, to do it the right way. I suspect that Duane has the right approach. I can almost shoot with both eyes open by simply adjusting my head and arms just a bit, but 45+ years of shooting with my left eye closed and increasingly poor vision are tough to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendytww Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Ok, ok you guys have convinced me. I am going to try right handed and see how it goes. Damg it, now I got to try to do everything "backwards" again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hang on, folks. Couldn't it be argued that shooting is similar to golf, and that if you learn cross-handed, you're actually at an advantage? Consider: 1. The grip. A great grip is one where the support hand leads, and the "strong" hand concentrates on working the trigger. Cross handed would help here. 2. Mag changes. Strong hand pushes a button. Weak hand moves to belt, grabs new mag, and inserts at highest possible speed. Where do you want your smart hand in this scenario? 3. SHO/WHO stages. If you're constantly training your dumb hand to shoot, then you'll naturally be better at both, since the less-trained hand was smarter to begin with. 4. Stage design. Valid point, and one that irks me as a lefty as well. DOORS CAN BE HUNG ON EITHER SIDE, USPSA! Of course, you occasionally get a stage designed against righties, but it's 1/5 at best. 5. Equipment. It does have an effect on used equipment, granted. It also is a pain on 1911s and other anachronisms that only have one-sided controls. Past a certain point your training overcomes these issues, but it is definitely annoying as a beginner. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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