Factory Crinp Die

[steveyacht]

I have been advised that I should get a "Factory Crimp Die" to make sure my loads will feed reliably. I am a bit confused. Does this die replace the current seating/crimp die? Or, will I put it in the fifth station on my press and use it AFTER the bullet is seated? Is there a brand that is better than another? (Hornady, Lee, RCBS, Dillon, Redding, etc?)

Thanks in advance!

Steve

[ihatepickles]

Sounds like you already seat the bullet and crimp the round separately, this is a good thing so keep doing it. The Lee Factory Crimp Die replaces your existing crimp die (after the bullet is seated). Lee is the only brand I know of that sells a Factory Crimp Die, maybe I'm wrong but I just don't know of another.

[njl]

Who's dies are you using now? Are you having feeding problems?

[z40acp]

What caliber are you shooting? I like the FCD in .45 because of the variety of different brass {military} but don't think it is needed in .40. I do think that how it crimps the brass is more consistant.

[HSMITH]

It is a band aid. If you NEED it you have problems.

I recommend a Dillon sizer in 1, a Lee U-die in 2, powder in 3 using a funnel turned down to make sure it does NOTHING but flare the case, a Redding Competition Seating Die in 4 and a whatever brand you have standard crimp die in 5.

[steveyacht]

What caliber are you shooting? I like the FCD in .45 because of the variety of different brass {military} but don't think it is needed in .40. I do think that how it crimps the brass is more consistant.

I am not having a problem with my gun, but when I make some ammo for friends, she has a problem with feeding in her Dan Wesson Patriot. 45 acp. I have not had a problem with my Para 14. Maybe her barrel has tighter tolerances?? I am currently using the latest version of Hornady titanium dies with decap/resize in station one, bell in station two, powder in station three and bullet seating/crimp in station four. Currently, Station five is not used.

This is my first attempt at volume metallic cartridge loading, and only have completed about 600 rounds (would be more if I had components) that said, I really appreciate the expertise and help have found here.

Thanks again.

Steve

[Canuck223]

It is a band aid. If you NEED it you have problems.

It's somewhat like mom feeding you oatmeal on a cold winter morning. It may not really help, but it rarely hurts and might save your butt once in a while.

Most guys use them because they shoot 9mm or .40, and the chance of getting a piece of Glocked brass might ruin thier day. The LFC sizes the base of the brass far more than the standard sizer, and may allow a fat case to be sized enough to avoid a jam.

[njl]

It is a band aid. If you NEED it you have problems.

It's somewhat like mom feeding you oatmeal on a cold winter morning. It may not really help, but it rarely hurts and might save your butt once in a while.

Most guys use them because they shoot 9mm or .40, and the chance of getting a piece of Glocked brass might ruin thier day. The LFC sizes the base of the brass far more than the standard sizer, and may allow a fat case to be sized enough to avoid a jam.

I'm using Dillon dies, and all my 9mm brass is "Glocked". My loads all drop right in and out of my Dillon 9mm case gauge. Are some "match" barrels even tighter than Dillon case gauges?

[ihatepickles]

I am currently using the latest version of Hornady titanium dies with decap/resize in station one, bell in station two, powder in station three and bullet seating/crimp in station four. Currently, Station five is not used.

Don't seat and crimp in the same step if at all possible. You can keep using your existing seating die with the crimper backed all the way (usually the seat/crimp dies have an adjustment knob for seating depth and how far you screw in the die itself regulates crimp, so back the die out 3 turns and then reset the seating adjustment to preference) out and add a 5th die in station 5 to taper crimp the finished round separately. Much better ammo will result.

Edited June 8, 2009 by ihatepickles

[CocoBolo]

Definately do not use the Factory Crimp die if you are loading Lead bullets. That die does do ok when loading Jacketed bullets. Using it on lead bullets will cause the bullet to go undersize and it will wobble down the barrel leaving heavy lead deposits in the barrrel.

You have Hornady Dies these are the best dies, however I have not tired Redding. I sold my Lee and Dillon dies and replaced them with Hornady. While I respect the Blue, I use a Red reloader Hornady, and their dies are just better.

You didn't say which bullet you were loading so lets assume it is round nose as SWC's come in a variety of shapes and don't feed in many guns.

First I did not see where you said you were plunk checking your ammo. You know the SAMMI gauge, if they fall in and out they are good. Get one and check every round no matter what crimp die you use and no matter what press you use a plunk check is a requirement.

Get a Hornady taper crimp die and put it in station five. Take your seating and crimping die and back it out 1 to 1 1/2 turns so that it does not touch the case, then readjust your bullet seating depth. You may use another brand of taper crimp die if you have a newer lock and load without the dreaded ejection wire or another brand of press.

Check the oal on the first 10 rounds that you load. When all the stations are full it is possible for the OAL to be up to .010 longer than when you have only one round in checking the OAL.

Other issues with 45 reloads: The biggest issue on my 45 when I started was that I had a heavy recoil spring and a light 200 gr bullet at about 140pf, I had trouble with the gun not going into battery, cure was a 12lb variable recoil spring. The other cure would have been to go to a 230gr with more powder pushing the PF up.

The Para may be able to take longer OAL than the Dan Wesson, check this by doing drop checking in the Dan Wesson barrel. Insert slowly if you feel any resistance before the rim hits the chamber its too long. If you think you have it right load 6-8 dummy rounds then cycle them thru the gun slowly feeling to make sure it is smooth and does not hang up going in or coming out. If that passes load them in another mag and cycle them thru fast as you can. The final test will be the range.

Edited June 8, 2009 by CocoBolo

[ihatepickles]

Definately do not use the Factory Crimp die if you are loading Lead bullets. That die does do ok when loading Jacketed bullets. Using it on lead bullets will cause the bullet to go undersize and it will wobble down the barrel leaving heavy lead deposits in the barrrel.

I definitely disagree with this. I've loaded more than 100,000 rounds with a Lee FCD without undersizing lead bullets. My case mouth measurements are consistently case thickness x2 + bullet diameter.

[steveyacht]

Definately do not use the Factory Crimp die if you are loading Lead bullets. That die does do ok when loading Jacketed bullets. Using it on lead bullets will cause the bullet to go undersize and it will wobble down the barrel leaving heavy lead deposits in the barrrel.

You have Hornady Dies these are the best dies, however I have not tired Redding. I sold my Lee and Dillon dies and replaced them with Hornady. While I respect the Blue, I use a Red reloader Hornady, and their dies are just better.

You didn't say which bullet you were loading so lets assume it is round nose as SWC's come in a variety of shapes and don't feed in many guns.

First I did not see where you said you were plunk checking your ammo. You know the SAMMI gauge, if they fall in and out they are good. Get one and check every round no matter what crimp die you use and no matter what press you use a plunk check is a requirement.

Get a Hornady taper crimp die and put it in station five. Take your seating and crimping die and back it out 1 to 1 1/2 turns so that it does not touch the case, then readjust your bullet seating depth. You may use another brand of taper crimp die if you have a newer lock and load without the dreaded ejection wire or another brand of press.

Check the oal on the first 10 rounds that you load. When all the stations are full it is possible for the OAL to be up to .010 longer than when you have only one round in checking the OAL.

Other issues with 45 reloads: The biggest issue on my 45 when I started was that I had a heavy recoil spring and a light 200 gr bullet at about 140pf, I had trouble with the gun not going into battery, cure was a 12lb variable recoil spring. The other cure would have been to go to a 230gr with more powder pushing the PF up.

The Para may be able to take longer OAL than the Dan Wesson, check this by doing drop checking in the Dan Wesson barrel. Insert slowly if you feel any resistance before the rim hits the chamber its too long. If you think you have it right load 6-8 dummy rounds then cycle them thru the gun slowly feeling to make sure it is smooth and does not hang up going in or coming out. If that passes load them in another mag and cycle them thru fast as you can. The final test will be the range.

Thank you for your advice! I happen to like the Hornady products also and like you, Have one of their L-n-L AP loaders. THe bullets I am having problems with are both 230 gr LRN and 200 gr LSWC cast bullets.

FWIW, I just called Hornady and spoke with one of their tech people. After some discussion, he suggested (as many have here) to back off the crimp adjustment on the seating/crimp die, and get one of their "Taper Crimp Dies" to use in station two, so it will taper the OD to between .668 to .670. In his opinion this will take care of any feeding problems we are now having.

Now, Lee FCD or Hornady...... This can be very confusing for me sometimes as I want to to the very best I possibly can.

[Apiarian]

I guess it is because I have never had issues, but I have never quite understood the need for the FCD. In an autoloaders I just crimp enough to brighten the top of the brass. With that the bell is out and no over crimping.

[MemphisMechanic]

I guess it is because I have never had issues, but I have never quite understood the need for the FCD. In an autoloaders I just crimp enough to brighten the top of the brass. With that the bell is out and no over crimping.

When I first installed the Lee FCD, I took a dozen rounds loaded with all-Dillon dies which wouldn't case-gauge, and ran them through the crimp station. All of them gauged perfect afterwards.

The EGW U-die was nice, but doesn't do anything for worn-out cases that bulge while the bullet is seated. Had a few of those with the EGW.

All I can tell you is this:

I still had to case-gauge when using a U-die. (9mm ammo, by the way)

I do not have to case-gauge with the FCD. (I still gauge match ammo, but if I have 1-2 failures in 1,000 rounds, that's a bad batch)

Edited June 10, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[HSMITH]

Smashing the errors into fitting the case gauge is one approach, I prefer to fix the problems instead. If the FCD really helps you there are problems upstream that should be addressed.

[wide45]

The FCD works for cheap lead loads. Quality bullets don't need it.

It's dangerous with plated. The soft cores don't springback like brass, causing loose bullets, and setback.

It should make no difference with good jacketed bullets.

Some use it to size the base of the case, after completing the rest of the loading process. I much prefer to use a proper size die to begin with.

[Apiarian]

Well, at least I have a better understanding of why some people use it. It looks like the majority of folks using the FCD are shooting lead. Of course it may just be that the majority of folks here shoot lead.

[DougCarden]

I agree with a lot of what has been posted, good information. Couple of things........

U die is a good thing if you need it. A standard Lee die will size down farther on Glocked brass than the Dillon sizing die due to the taper ground into it. I really dont ever use my U die.

If I am loading lead bullets I use the Factory crimp die every time, period. I dont care who casts the bullets and their reputation....all cast bullets are not alike, and some will not be perfect. Just the way it is....The FCDie allows every round to chamber and feed, period. In my accuracy testing out to 50yds I have tested the same ammo loaded with the FCD and the Dillon die. Zero change in accuracy from "crushing the bullet". Take that for what it is worth.

Taper Crimping, or "just taking the bell off of the case mouth on the semi auto cartridge" is best done in a separate station if at all possible.

If your ammo doesn't fit into the other gun then it more likely has a tight chamber or throat and might need a little ream through it, but it doesnt mean your ammo is suspect. Pull the barrel and drop the loaded rounds into it and it will tell you if you need more crimp or less....maybe your OAL is too much.

Have fun,

DougC

[Graham Smith]

There is still a LOT about reloading I need to learn so this is a somewhat under-informed opinion. The type of crimp needed varies somewhat with caliber. Revolver calibers generally use a roll crimp while autoloader calibers generally use a taper crimp. And the amount of crimp can vary with bullet type. So there is not a one-size-fits-all answer to this question.

The only time I have seen a Lee Factory Crimp die specifically recommended was for 9mm because the die acts both as a crimp die and a full length resizer. That's not to say it's not useful for other calibers but do date I've only reloaded 9mm, .38SP, and .40S&Wm so my scope is limited.

[leam]

Had some problems this week with 45 ACP range brass loads not fitting the gauge. I'm using a Lee 4 die set in a Rock Chucker; is there a good way to make sure the entire case is sized right? EGW sells the Lee Undersize die in 45, should I consider that?

More imperative as I'm going to install a Kart NM barrell shortly and want everything working fine.

Leam

[mda]

Had some problems this week with 45 ACP range brass loads not fitting the gauge. I'm using a Lee 4 die set in a Rock Chucker; is there a good way to make sure the entire case is sized right? EGW sells the Lee Undersize die in 45, should I consider that?

Leam

Make sure the sizing die just kisses the shell plate to ensure it is sizing all the way down the shell.

I am not having a problem with my gun, but when I make some ammo for friends, she has a problem with feeding in her Dan Wesson Patriot. 45 acp. I have not had a problem with my Para 14. Maybe her barrel has tighter tolerances?? I am currently using the latest version of Hornady titanium dies with decap/resize in station one, bell in station two, powder in station three and bullet seating/crimp in station four. Currently, Station five is not used.

Thanks again.

Steve

Like a few others have said, could be an length issue. Could also be mag's or extractor, does factory ammo have problems feeding? What are the "feeding problems" ie. is the bullet nose diving into the feed ramp, jamming into the top of the chamber halfway in, almost fully in the chamber with the slide just out of battery.

mda

[leam]

Like a few others have said, could be an length issue. Could also be mag's or extractor, does factory ammo have problems feeding? What are the "feeding problems" ie. is the bullet nose diving into the feed ramp, jamming into the top of the chamber halfway in, almost fully in the chamber with the slide just out of battery.

mda

Factory ammo? What's that?

For the most part it's the last 1/2 inch ramp up and over. I can usually thumb press the back of the slide or hit it with my palm to make it go in. Just replaced the extractor to it may be a bit tight yet. Had forgotten that.

I love trying to figure this stuff out!

Leam

[MemphisMechanic]

Smashing the errors into fitting the case gauge is one approach, I prefer to fix the problems instead. If the FCD really helps you there are problems upstream that should be addressed.

You call it smashing. I call it loading (accurate) ammo that feeds.

Edited August 4, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[GmanCdp]

Definately do not use the Factory Crimp die if you are loading Lead bullets. That die does do ok when loading Jacketed bullets. Using it on lead bullets will cause the bullet to go undersize and it will wobble down the barrel leaving heavy lead deposits in the barrrel

never had that in 55k of lead....

[Vincent258]

I am currently using the latest version of Hornady titanium dies with decap/resize in station one, bell in station two, powder in station three and bullet seating/crimp in station four. Currently, Station five is not used.

Don't seat and crimp in the same step if at all possible. You can keep using your existing seating die with the crimper backed all the way (usually the seat/crimp dies have an adjustment knob for seating depth and how far you screw in the die itself regulates crimp, so back the die out 3 turns and then reset the seating adjustment to preference) out and add a 5th die in station 5 to taper crimp the finished round separately. Much better ammo will result.

Seating and crimping in two separate stages has fixed my dalema as well.

Previously I was having issues with my .45ACP 200g RND lead bullets, where the bullets weren't seating into battery all the way. After some extensive mic'ing and experimenting, I found that during the seat/crimp stage (combined), a portion of lead from the shoulder of the bullet was being reshaped, as the bullet was still being seated at the same time that the taper crimp was pressing the case mouth into crimp. This resulted in a bullet with a slightly larger diameter, compared to the diameter of a bullet before it has been pressed into a case.

To remedy this issue, I tried separating the seat and crimp stages. Simply by crimping the bullet after it has been seated completely, the diameter of the bullet did not enlarge.

I tested my completed rounds by drop testing them into the barrel of my gun and I was happy to find that they fell into (and out of) the chamber with ease.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. This information is worth it's weight in gold to a new reloader.