What EXACTLY do you see?

[Matt Griffin]

This also made me think of another axiom to the sport:

Technique is what lets you prevent Charlies and move on, Vision is what lets you recognize Deltas and fix them.

H.

[Z32MadMan]

He's more than passed, that's the first real-picture example I've seen of the process, Kudos! Put another recoil slide after the first shot, and get two targets in the sequence, and that will become a reference material for as long as USPSA lasts. I'm just incredibly impressed by that sequence of shots, I can't say it enough. (well, minus the toilet.)

H.

I'll toss in another target and give each one two shots. I think it could help people to really understand what they need to "see".

But the toilet stays!

[Z32MadMan]

The insomnia is really getting things done tonight

Version 2.0

1) Standby!

2) Beep! Sharp eye focus on the point on the target you want to hit

3) Gun is coming into sight, steering for that point in the A zone, sharp target focus

4) Gun is on target, eye focus snaps to front sight,target fuzzy, start calling shot..

5) Front sight lifts, the shot is called, eyes track the sight through recoil

6) Front sight settles back on target, sharp front sight focus ready to call shot, target fuzzy

7) Front sight lifts again, the shot is called, eyes track the sight through recoil

8) Gun settles back on target

9) Eyes snap to next target, with a sharp target focus on a point in the A zone

10) Gun starts moving, still in sharp target focus

11) Gun getting close, still in sharp target focus

12) Gun is now on target, snap to sharp front sight focus, target is fuzzy, start calling shot

13) Front sight lifts, the shot is called, eyes track the sight through recoil

14) Front sight settles on target, sharp front sight focus, target fuzzy, ready to call final shot

15) Front sight lifts, the shot is called, eyes track front sight through recoil

Edited June 4, 2009 by Z32MadMan

[Service Desk]

The sights are not judgemental, they are a source of perfect truth - to see them is to have belief in truth. That's why I have adjustable sights..... to make sure that the truth is true.

[Sean Gaines]

Great work with the pics. I will keep the target fuzzy with sights sharper, even transitioning to targets, I still dont get a sharp picture on the target. Its still focused on the sights. you know where the target is when transitioning, there is really no need to keep target in sharp focus. think about that. you need to keep your eyes on whats going to make an A hit, your sights

[Matt Griffin]

Nice sequence! That'll save a lot of wear and tear on keyboards having to describe "seeing the sights" over and over.

H.

[lugnut]

Z32- post #22 is great. I try to see this all the time. I struggle with tracking the sights during a COF... but when simply doing bill drills or timing drills I track the sights fine. I also struggle with calling my shots sometimes as when the shot breaks I can't often tell exactly how high my front sight was, or how small the gap was, as on the left compared to the right, etc. All this is easy for me in slower fire... when things speed up and the adrenaline kicks in I find this tough. Just need to keep at it!

[bkeeler]

I will through this in.

Now trusting what you see is what you need to see to call the shot without doubt. (the sight alignment does not have to be perfect to get an A hit!)

This was a huge improvement for me.

BK

[askomiko]

I use tape in front of the left eye, and before the beep I like to focus to the spot where the front sight will be, so that the target is already blurry.

[jboyglocker]

Okay, guys, I have to say I'm new to this whole scene, and have been looking over the forums for tips and tricks before I go to the range again, to know what to work on. This has been such a HUGE help, and thanks ALOT for the pictorial demonstration. I've always had troubles trying to focus with both eyes, so I've been trying for about a year or so to focus on the target, and still maintain clarity on my sights (NOT working). This has helped me out so much, and I can't wait to get to the range and try out what I've recently learned. Like I said, thanks. Sorry for the run-on sentences.

Mike

[tripwire]

Great series of pictures and very interesting thread. This has been something I have been struggling with in my dryfire practice. I think I may have to do some "eye" dryfire to speed up my ability to change focus, because right now it is really slow for me.

Anybody have a favorite eye drill? Maybe one I can get away with doing at my desk at work when things are slow?

[benos]

Yes, that's critical.

To shoot accurately more quickly, you have to train yourself to see more in a shorter period of time.

As a beginner - you'll just see and remember fragments of everything you could have seen.

But in the end, when you've really figured it out, it will know that you saw everything.

At that point you'll remember every subtle detail of everything you saw in a string of fire. The sights coming into the first target, pausing, clearly in focus front sight lifting and returning and lifting again; your vision is already moving to find the next target; then as you locate the center of the target, peripherally, you pick up the sights coming into it; by the time the sights are stopped on the center, you have a razor sharp front sight focus, as you see the sight lift... on and on until you call the last shot - unload and show clear with no doubts whatsoever.

Eventually you can learn to program what you need to see, for any string of fire, like that. You create a movie in your head, and the buzzer starts it.

be

Is this visual acuity something that can be gained from practice alone ? Or is it a skill/ trait that some have naturally ?

It took me many years of training before reaching the visual understanding and application described in the last two paragraphs.

But I just kinda worked it out on my own - so it should now go much quicker for you.

I'd even read a few books on visualization practice and techniques - but the weird thing was none of them ever clicked for me. I'd read them and immediately become bored with them. Maybe even dismissing them as some sort of silly mystical crap.

Then one day, maybe 15 years into training, I remember distinctly realizing - wow - what matters most is how, what, and the subtleties of those, that you can create in your mind, before the act begins. I also remember realizing at that moment - hey, that's not different from visualization. It was a really weird experience. I still don't know why I wasn't drawn to the material (books) that I now knew were where its at. Maybe I had to figure it out for myself. I do enjoy that.

be

[38supPat]

I think this is one of those things that is very personal, you must figure it out for yourself. You can be told what visualization is, have the details explained, but until you see for yourself you don't really get it.

I've tried typing this a few times on this thread and it's a difficult concept to write down as it is such an unique experience once you connect the dots.

Most of what needs to be discovered is how the mind works. The eyes merely bring in the information, your brain interprets that input and directs the focus. Put another way, the eyes are bringing in tons of data which your mind must then sort through to find what is important and then direct the action accordingly. This can only be done at speed by the subconscious. The instant your conscious mind interupts, you become very mechanical, jerky and slow.

Study how to train the subconscius mind and you'll begin to see how visualization, awareness and focus all work.

[el pres]

The sights are not judgemental, they are a source of perfect truth - to see them is to have belief in truth. That's why I have adjustable sights..... to make sure that the truth is true.

Thats awsome !!

I love these type of threads !!

Z32- post #22 is great. I try to see this all the time. I struggle with tracking the sights during a COF... but when simply doing bill drills or timing drills I track the sights fine. I also struggle with calling my shots sometimes as when the shot breaks I can't often tell exactly how high my front sight was, or how small the gap was, as on the left compared to the right, etc. All this is easy for me in slower fire... when things speed up and the adrenaline kicks in I find this tough. Just need to keep at it!

I can say from my little bit of exipirience that two words jump out in that paragraph as to why you cant see them

in a match. I went through this a still do when I loose focus, stop focusing on getting the stage done as "fast" as possible and shoot the sights, I say to myself, "more agressively", not "faster"...

As for the OP, could the double image also be attributed to a weak eye dominance ? Training your dominance will

help that situation and you will learn how to ignore whats coming in from the non dominant eye..

Edited June 5, 2009 by P.Pres

[38supPat]

Today's Maku Mozo:

What is important is to understand the operation of your own mind.

-Krishnamurti

[TheDarkOne]

Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but this is the topic that has been consuming me lately, so I want to make sure I am completely squared away on it. I am new, and have been competing with pure front sight focus through the whole stage, which can make it difficult to find which blurry double image is the correct one. I now know that this approach is incorrect, and has led to slow transition times.

Is the final and/or correct answer what Z32MadMan illustrated in his diagram? It seems to be the most popular, but there are other ideas suggested as well, which leads to a little confusion with those of us trying to figure this out.

Last question, when you talked about tracking the front sight, are you literally tracking it recoil up and back down, or just waiting for it to get back to where it was. It seems like a fast object to literally track, so I assume the first.

BTW,Z32MadMan, your diagram was very well done, and exactly what I was after. The only thing that could make it better would be to superimpose the double images of the objects not in pure focus. Maybe if I have one of those sleepless nights, I will build upon what you have already done, all credit to you of course.

[Duane Thomas]

If you have your head up so the front sight doesn't flip up out of your cone of vision, and your eyes open so you can actually see it, and decent enough technique that the front sight's not actually moving up that far, and coming right back to the same spot, it's actually no great trick to watch the front sight through its entire arc of motion.

[TheDarkOne]

If you have your head up so the front sight doesn't flip up out of your cone of vision, and your eyes open so you can actually see it, and decent enough technique that the front sight's not actually moving up that far, and coming right back to the same spot, it's actually no great trick to watch the front sight through its entire arc of motion.

Just to clarify what you mean by 'watch'. If I hold my finger out at arms length and move it up and down as fast as I can, I can watch it go up and down just fine, but my eyes muscles are not actually moving. Is that what you mean by watching it through its arc of motion, or are your eye muscles literally moving to follow it? If the later, I would say that is pretty remarkable, as my eyes don't seem to be able to move that fast.

[benos]

If you have your head up so the front sight doesn't flip up out of your cone of vision, and your eyes open so you can actually see it, and decent enough technique that the front sight's not actually moving up that far, and coming right back to the same spot, it's actually no great trick to watch the front sight through its entire arc of motion.

Just to clarify what you mean by 'watch'. If I hold my finger out at arms length and move it up and down as fast as I can, I can watch it go up and down just fine, but my eyes muscles are not actually moving. Is that what you mean by watching it through its arc of motion, or are your eye muscles literally moving to follow it? If the later, I would say that is pretty remarkable, as my eyes don't seem to be able to move that fast.

You may not be able to understand the seeing Duane's describing by analyzing or thinking about it.

Tracking the Sight:

You're looking right at your front sight as the shot breaks. If you don't blink, you'll see it, in focus, lift up a bit out of the rear notch. It will actually travel quite a bit higher than you'll see it climb, but that doesn't matter. Then while you are still focused right where it was, you'll see it come right come back down into the notch. (You'll only see it coming down for about the same distance/amount of time that you saw it lift, but again that doesn't matter.)

The reason I said you might not be able to understand it by thinking about it - the actual amount you see the sight move is very small. It's not like looking at a wiggling finger.

I can't remember if this was in this topic or not. A great way to learn what it means to track the sights is to quickly shoot a string of about 6 shots, without caring where the bullets go. Just aim into the backstop, cast a gentle gaze around the front site, and start pulling the trigger. And it will help - have someone watch your from the side and be sure you're not blinking.

be

[TheDarkOne]

Perfect Brian, thanks. That makes perfect sense, and what I had originaly thought.

[mda]

Is the final and/or correct answer what Z32MadMan illustrated in his diagram? It seems to be the most popular, but there are other ideas suggested as well, which leads to a little confusion with those of us trying to figure this out.

More or less yes. Most of us here would call this sequence a type 3 focus with a sharp focus on the front sight. On closer targets, kind of like the unfocused picture in the sequence, there is enough information to know you have a hit in the A zone. This would be a type 2 focus. You see the sight aligned and over the A zone. On really close targets you just need to see the slide and frame alined over the A zone. Type 1

Last question, when you talked about tracking the front sight, are you literally tracking it recoil up and back down, or just waiting for it to get back to where it was. It seems like a fast object to literally track, so I assume the first.

Waiting for the sight to return. You should "see"!

BTW,Z32MadMan, your diagram was very well done, and exactly what I was after. The only thing that could make it better would be to superimpose the double images of the objects not in pure focus. Maybe if I have one of those sleepless nights, I will build upon what you have already done, all credit to you of course.

You should not be seeing a double image.

MDA

Edited January 29, 2010 by mda

[tollarja]

Is the final and/or correct answer what Z32MadMan illustrated in his diagram? It seems to be the most popular, but there are other ideas suggested as well, which leads to a little confusion with those of us trying to figure this out.

More or less yes. Most of us here would call this sequence a type 3 focus with a sharp focus on the front sight. On closer targets, kind of like the unfocused picture in the sequence, there is enough information to know you have a hit in the A zone. This would be a type 2 focus. You see the sight aligned and over the A zone. On really close targets you just need to see the slide and frame alined over the A zone. Type 1

Last question, when you talked about tracking the front sight, are you literally tracking it recoil up and back down, or just waiting for it to get back to where it was. It seems like a fast object to literally track, so I assume the first.

Waiting for the sight to return. You should "see"!

BTW,Z32MadMan, your diagram was very well done, and exactly what I was after. The only thing that could make it better would be to superimpose the double images of the objects not in pure focus. Maybe if I have one of those sleepless nights, I will build upon what you have already done, all credit to you of course.

You should not be seeing a double image.

MDA

You may not see the double image, but many of us do.

If you have one eye closed you will see a single image. Two eyes open there will be two images. I imagine that if one has a very dominate eye, they may not "see" the double image, but it is there. My brain has yet to learn to delete the input from the eye I am not using to aim. The best I can do right now is try ignore it. If you don't see it you are extremely fortunate, but it is only because you (your brain) have learned to completely ignore the image from your other eye. You have chosen the blue pill.

When focused on the front sight I see two guns and two targets. It took me a month to really get set on the correct gun and target (Right eye: left gun, right target, opposite for other eye) I have two eyes open so there are two images of everything. The one I use for aiming is the sights and target aligned with my right eye, the one I ignore is the oblique view of my gun and sight provided by my left eye.

[Corey]

Im a victim of the double ghost image problem. My solution: put a piece of semi-clear scotch tape over the left eye on my shooting glasses. not the whole lense, just a piece about 3/4"-1" long, right in the spot where my eye creates the image. This allows me to shoot both eyes open and only have 1 set of sights, and 1 target in my vision and with my eyes open I feel like I can see better into the peripheral, especially to my left. Seems to make target transitions easier then when closing left eye, shooting, opening eye, finding new target, getting on target, closing eye and shooting.

After a few weeks of dryfire and some range time, I dont even notice the tape anymore.

[TheDarkOne]

I am a person who see 2 images as well. I am not sure if most are this way, but I agree that double images are there, whether you notice them or not. I have been attempting to get comfortable shooting right handed/right eye, and left handed left eye, which really gets confusing since there everything is flipped. In honor of Z32MadMan I have put together an illustration, what I am calling the 'full sight picture'; what you need to put rounds on target, and the ghost images out to the sides. In both images, the focus is on the front sight.

Edited January 29, 2010 by TheDarkOne

[Corey]

thats a good pictoral. the tape idea i suggested simply "blocks" the ghost image and has really allowed me to focus on sights and the shooting instead of other random things. i tihnk this is more wide spread, but the experienced shooters have blocked it out over the years and dont notice it. its seems to be the new guys like me who notice it more.