dohboy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Too many of these responses are of the passive-aggressive nature. This is not the best way to solve the problem, it may provide some satisfaction but it wont solve the problem. It is best to confront the individual, explain the situation and articulate the expectations that apply to all shooters. Confronting a problem is not a bad thing. Do it in a nice manner without anger. Be factual. Failure to meet expectations has consequences. Give the shooter the opportunity to meet the expectation by constant re-enforcement of those expectations. If the shooter fails to meet the expectations, they suffer the consequences of which many have articulated in this thread. I agree. By letting the problem child know exactly what the problem is, you avoid any misunderstanding and furthermore, any lame excuses. We avoid this problem by squadding with shooters who carry their weight. Plus it makes shooting how it should be...Fun! Edited June 16, 2009 by dohboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uno5885 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 What really gets me is when the kids shooting don't help out out all. Their parents are shooting the match too but the kids just sit and do nothing. At the VA/MD section we ran into 2 kids that did not touch a paster. When we called out for pasters they just sat their like the king of the world. Their parents were helping but not our children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 This happens frequently at our local IDPA matches. I have decided to make it a point during the Safety Briefing that everyone either paste targets or pickup brass. I will then provide long strips of tape to those who have decided to paste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveyacht Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 When our squad meets at the first target array, I or the other RO will make sure every one is introduced to each other and then let everyone know what is expected of them. While the regulars have heard it before, many new shooters have no clue what is expected of them. Once the range has gone Cold, I usually Yell out, "Paint, Paste and Pick em up folks!!!" In the rare event we have spectators, I even have them pick up brass at the firing line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 While too few shooters on a squad is not normally a problem it can be. It takes around 7-8 members of a squad to make it run efficiently, perhaps one or two more. One shooting, one on deck, one just finished shooting, only leaves four shooters to re-set the stage. This is usually good, unless it is a local match where you will probably eat up two more running the timer and score keeping. If the range is like Area 5 will be this weekend, sandy, then it may take longer for the just finished shooter to get ready due to cleaning magazines. I do like the idea of letting the slackers paste their own targets and reset their own steel. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 at our range the squads are usually 8 plus shooters, we call out the order of shooters for the shooter, the on deck shooter and the person in the hole, then it's by name for at least 3 tapers, one steel setter and a mag/brass person. Anybody left over can help or stay behind. We've put a safety area on each or next to each bay so a shooter after shooting can bag their gun, hoping that not having a gun on will make you want to go down range and work without the hassle of the gun on you. Over the next couple of matches we will have awnings down range closer to the start position, we hope that this will get people more involved, instead of sitting way back under the over hangs. We even offer food on one stage (chips/salsa) to help motivate shooters, we keep it right down by the start area. After all this, I guess if those couple of range loafers fail to help, then we're just gonna have to cap their ass's and leave them for buzzards. michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 We bought the 139 dollar white tents at tractor Supply, there is shad on most all of our bays. The big problem is that people are comfortable, used to be there was a race to brass and get yours back, it was so cheap for so long that many people felt it just slowed it all down to brass. It is a real push to correct that. On the otherhand. by Monday night there is precious few pieces of brass left on our range. Someone finds the time. Now if we could just get them to pick up the steel and aluminum cases as well.... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Gladstone Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have had experiences on both ends of the spectrum. During one nationals at Barry if you didn't run to a target you were left with pasters on your fingers the competition to tape was just as fierce as the shooting. Then there was an Area 6 match that 3/4 of the squad would move on to the next stage before the squad was done. The same people tape, score, and RO at every match it is very predictable who is going to do what. Match directors should be told when particular people fail to help so they can talk to them about proper behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 We even offer food on one stage (chips/salsa) to help motivate shooters, we keep it right down by the start area. I'd reconsider that. After finding my lead level too high I was told that a big contributing factor was eating after shooting without washing my hands first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 A little 10.6.1 action (or threat thereof) will often get the regular loafers in line...not that I'd really desire to use it, but I have had occasion to bring it up to a few. Specifically "failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official"... If I can show up to matches to shoot, not with the intent to RO, and end up with the timer and/or clipboard for every shooter save myself, then by God any prima donna on the squad can help tape/ reset or go home. Can you tell this is one of my pet peeves????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob D Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've been shooting for just over a year. I'm no veteran, but I've been here long enough to know what's going on. I always tape unless I'm about to shoot or just shot. The loafers we have are the guys who have been shooting for 10 years and seem to just be genuinely lazy and often grumpy. They stand in the shade and chat while the newer shooters tape and set steel. What advice would you guys give on how to deal with this as a 23 year old who hasn't been shooting for a decade? I don't want to disrespect anyone, but it gets old when these two guys are on my squad week after week and never tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 What advice would you guys give on how to deal with this as a 23 year old who hasn't been shooting for a decade? I don't want to disrespect anyone, but it gets old when these two guys are on my squad week after week and never tape. Make one of them a fan from old patch sheets, and promise the other one if they empty a few full sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 We even offer food on one stage (chips/salsa) to help motivate shooters, we keep it right down by the start area. I'd reconsider that. After finding my lead level too high I was told that a big contributing factor was eating after shooting without washing my hands first. not a big problem here, wash station is about 40 feet away, we even installed an electric hand dryer there. When the food comes out, the line forms at the outdoor sink, or you see a lot of hand wipes coming out. michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Lady Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 It would be interesting if you squadded all the loafers together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Rader Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 If they are close to a box a pasters, just grab them and say "Can I use these since you aren't"? They will sometimes get the hint but not always. Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I was thinking about this thread last night during our local IDPA-style indoor match.We had 20 people and every one of them helped. If you wanted to paste a target you had to hurry before someone else got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBuzzard Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I was in a squad at a level III match where a procedural was given to someone for not taping at all during a particular stage. Must be the 10.6.1 rule ???? Has anyone seen this done before? BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I don't believe there is any legal way to give a procedural for not taping. DQ yes, procedural no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I don't believe there is any legal way to give a procedural for not taping. DQ yes, procedural no. You could put it in the stage description... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I don't believe there is any legal way to give a procedural for not taping. DQ yes, procedural no. You could put it in the stage description... No you can't..... Procedural penalties written into the stage description still need to be rulebook based..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 What really gets me is when the kids shooting don't help out out all. Their parents are shooting the match too but the kids just sit and do nothing. At the VA/MD section we ran into 2 kids that did not touch a paster. When we called out for pasters they just sat their like the king of the world. Their parents were helping but not our children. Step one, pick up pasters.... step two, place said pasters in kids hands... step three point to the targets and say, If you want to shoot'm paste'm. Step four, smile and look at them expectantly until they head out to paste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy metal Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 If you are an r.o., take charge of your squad! Remember who is in charge. If you were asked to be in charge of a squad, then your match director has faith in you and will back your decisions. Don't b afraid, step up and tell the what to do. Your position is like the teacher, if you do nothing then that's what gets done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I don't believe there is any legal way to give a procedural for not taping. DQ yes, procedural no. You could put it in the stage description... No you can't..... Procedural penalties written into the stage description still need to be rulebook based..... OK... Be that way!!! I ain't pastin'!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 OK... Be that way!!! I ain't pastin'!!! Are you failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I don't believe there is any legal way to give a procedural for not taping. DQ yes, procedural no. You could put it in the stage description... No you can't..... Procedural penalties written into the stage description still need to be rulebook based..... OK... Be that way!!! I ain't pastin'!!! Here's your entry fee, sir. Have a nice day, and be safe going home..... :D Seriously, I've found that most of the time it just takes a reasonable and polite conversation. On rare occasions has there been a need for a remedial discussion. I'm capable of those as well, but find that trying the polite approach usually works.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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