cypher Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I currently use a 200 SWC hard cast lead bullet over 4.3 gr. of straight clays which gets me to about a 173 pf. I would like a lighter load to practice with... something that would be a little easier on the gun with the amount of shooting I do. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks Homero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaass Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 The purpose of practice is to prepare for the "real thing", whether that be competition or self defense. You should practice with something that feels the same as your competition load so that your timing is not upset when you switch back. A 173 power factor load with lead bullets in a .45ACP gun is *not* going to unduly wear the gun out, at least not for the first 70-100K rounds! (This assumes, of course, that you are not using one of the pot-metal guns for competition.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher Posted May 15, 2002 Author Share Posted May 15, 2002 Thanks for your reply Jeff. I appreciate your point of view... I used to to load 5.8 to 5.9 gr of WW231 with the same hardcast 200gr. SWC which I use now... but I used to practice with a load of 5.0 or 5.1 of 231. It had less recoil and I felt it to be much easier on the gun. When match time came I would switch back to the heavier load and to be honest, I wouldn't feel much of a difference. I would like to duplicate that with Clays if possible. Homero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 cypher, Not to rain on your parade or anything but I strongly agree with Jeff. I find my timing screwed up when I practice with a different load than I shoot in practice. BUT, if you insist on a light load of Clays I think some of the guys here where I shoot have complained of incomplete ignition of Clays when loaded too light thus resulting in lots of unburned powder...something to keep in mind. I have never used it. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I loaded a 135PF 45 load using 3.4 gr. of Clays with a 230 gr. RN. I had absolutely no problems with unburned powder but I did get a lot of carbon in the breech area. Apparently the pressure was too low to seal the case in the chamber. Never had any reliabilty problem because of it though. I still keep ammo using that load around for taking newbies out to the range. They get to shoot a full size, big bore gun that feels like a .22, isn't load, and doesn't have a stiff muzzle blast to frighten them. Great beginner load for women, kids, and non-shooters who don't know which side of the gun control fence they're on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I guess I am the lone dissenting vote. In my .40 I shoot 170 grain lead in practice and 180 jacketed in matches. I also shoot real slow 200 grainers once in a while and my steel load is a snappy little 135. In my .45 I shoot 200 grainers in IPSC and 230 round nose in IDPA. I have heard a lot of agruments about timing. My solution is to do the timing drills that Matt Burkett talks about in his training materials. It doesn't take very long to become accustomed to a new load. In fact, I think it is good to make a few changes and hit the timing drills. It helps in calling the shots and aids with fire control. Then again, I could be full of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher Posted May 15, 2002 Author Share Posted May 15, 2002 Bill, Neither you nor Jeff are raining on my parade. I understand your point completely. I have very little experience with Clays. I was just wondering if what I used to do with WW231 would work as well with Clays. I like 231 but I like the fact that Clays shoots so much cleaner. When I fired the two different loads when I shot IPSC competitively (albeit 17 years ago) I did not have a problem with my timing being thrown off... honest. I got the idea to do this from articles written at the time by both Mickey Fowler and John Shaw who both recommended this. So the practice is not without precedent. Having said that. I had heard that Clays could do some funny things pressurewise if loaded too light or too short. Hence my question on this forum. It looks like going with a ligter Clays load may not be as viable an option as it was for 231, which is fine by me. I don't have a problem continuing to use my standard load of 4.3 gr. of Clays. Homero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 Cypher: I load WST with my 200 grainers and Clays with the 230 and 236 grain bullets. I am using 3.6 grains. I asked a question on another forum about going below the manufacturers listed minimums and I got a lot of different opinions so I called the factory. The explanation from the technical department at Hogdon's got complicated (some powders are sensitive as to the position in the case) but the bottom line was that there is no problem using reduced loads with Clays. Their number is 913-362-9455 and they are very good about answering questions. Don't be suprised if they try to get you to go to Titegroup because that is the least position sensitive powder they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher Posted May 15, 2002 Author Share Posted May 15, 2002 Thanks Ron. I will give them a call and see what they say. I may buy some Titegroup just to give 'er a try and see if I don't like that even a little better. Question: Where can I find the timing drills you referred to in your earlier post? I'd like to maybe try them out. Homero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Cypher: Matt Burkett has the drills on his web site at Matt Burkett.com under the shooting tips link. When I first tried them I thought, "What a way to waste 250 rounds of ammo." When I got finished I figured out that all of that shooting wasn't a waste at all because it got me acquainted with the load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 You wrote: >>>>loaded a 135PF 45 load using 3.4 gr. of Clays with a 230 gr. RN. I had absolutely no problems with unburned powder but I did get a lot of carbon in the breech area. Apparently the pressure was too low to seal the case in the chamber. Never had any reliabilty problem because of it though.>>>>>>>>> My experience exactly. Low charges of straight Clays will darken one third of the case just below the case mouth indicating that the case did not completely seal, but will work just fine and still be cleaner than 231. I use 200 grn plated bullets and had to go to 4.5 grns to get to 165+ (I think it was about 167 on a medium cold day). Accuracy and reliability were excellent. Have not tried titegroup yet, but it is supposed to be position insensitive and as economical as Clays. Might be dirty at reduced charge levels. Don't let the Clays pressure rumors scare you off experimenting with this excellent powder; those rumors apply more to .40 than .45 and involve heavy charges rather than reduced charges. (Edited by Carlos at 10:40 am on May 16, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 I use 200g lead #68 bullets over 5.8g of WW231. For a practive load I just switch to a 185g.bullet of the same design. Shoots a bit softer and is a little bit lighter on the wallet as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher Posted May 16, 2002 Author Share Posted May 16, 2002 Carlos & Chuck, Thanks. Good info. Gives me a little bit better idea of what to expect with Clays. Chuck, when you go to the lighter bullet, do you find that point of aim changes substantially or is it something you can live with. When I loaded my practice rounds from 5.8 to 5.0 of 231 with a 200 gr. bullet my point of aim did not change appreciably... at least not at IPSC distances. I remember that at the longer distances I held one of the loads dead on and the other at 6 o'clock. I can't remember which now... Just curious if you ran into any of the same and how you deal with it. Homero (Edited by cypher at 12:49 pm on May 16, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMyers Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 For practice and IDPA matches I shoot a 230gr Rainier plated round nose over 4.5gr of Titegroup. Easily meets the 165 PF, burns clean and recoil is low. I am guessing the IPSC guys would call it sluggish. With a 12lbs recoil spring the Wilson Shock-Buf gets a pretty outline of the slide hood but is not getting battered. I also get a little blow-by on the case but I think this is due in large part due to "very liberal chambering" by Kimber (it is reliable though!). Thats all I have to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrguar Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Here are a couple of options for you. I used to shoot a .451 200 SWC behind 6.0 Gr. Solo 1250 w/ Fed 150 primers got me around 179 PF in both of my Para's. Shoots very nice & very clean. Am now shooting 255 LSWC's loaded with 3.6 Gr of solo 1000 w/fed 150's gets me about 169 PF. gun stays pretty clean for about 1000 rds. tho I usually spray it out every 500 rds or so. Neither of these loads is very hard on either of my P14's I use 14# ismi springs and CP shock buffs. Practice what you play with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Cypher: I didn't notice any difference in point of impact until I got to the 25 yd. line then it was only an inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFL Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I have a soft and very accurate load of 4.1gr Clays, Fed LP magnum, 200gr Rainier SWC, chrono'd at 795 fps, that I like to practice with. I only use the magnum primer because I have a bunch and it seems to work slightly better than my normal Remington LP primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Reviving a 13 year old thread? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancher5 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I have a soft and very accurate load of 4.1gr Clays, Fed LP magnum, 200gr Rainier SWC, chrono'd at 795 fps, that I like to practice with. I only use the magnum primer because I have a bunch and it seems to work slightly better than my normal Remington LP primer.Thanks for sharing ,clays is good practice powderSent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickFL Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Reviving a 13 year old thread? Really? It is very old, but when you find something with Google/Bing it doesn't "feel" old, it's just there and if it's still relevant who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Reviving a 13 year old thread? Really? It is very old, but when you find something with Google/Bing it doesn't "feel" old, it's just there and if it's still relevant who cares? I agree. As for the original premise, I have shot different loads for Steel Challeng vs USPSA and found no problems going back and forth. Do any of you that shoot both Limited & Production find difficulties ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMax Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I try to use the same loads for practice and matches. I do have/had some really powder puff boxes stashed away though just for fun shooting or for the woman. I don't remember the load data but it was way under book load data. At 25 yards you could see the bullets leave the gun and travel downrange! Almost like shooting a paintball gun lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Here is some load information with Clays and 200gr LSWC @1.250. Chrono info @ bottom taken with 5" 1911. Edited November 21, 2015 by Steve RA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 230 grain xtreme rn 1.260 oal 3.8 grain n310 665 fps average Very soft and accurate any lighter and I lost accuracy and sd went up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatman73 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 3.9 grains of clays with a 200 lswc bullet is a good paper puncher. I have loaded 5.8 grains hp38 with the same bullet also both shot well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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