Why bother with lead bullets?

[slip knot]

Copper clad, may be the way to go for you, no lead hazzard, and easy of cleaning of the gun...

[jeep45238]

Do you have to add any other product to increase the hardness of wheel-weights' lead? I know that most companies use something like 2% antimony or even zinc but I am not sure if the wheel-weights have these already in them, if it has to be added, or if it really makes little or no difference.

You can add if you want, but I'm pretty strapped for cash and can't play metallurgist (but I do play one for school and work - along with statistician and ME).

That said, there's 2 ways to increase or decrease the hardness - change composition, or heat treat.

Zinc wheel weights are pure zinc, and will not melt at the low temp that the wheel weights melt at - pick 'em out. Stick on weights usually run 100% lead. The way I started off to tell the difference between zinc and lead was to give a squeeze with a pair of dikes, zinc is drastically harder than lead. You really don't want zinc in your mix.

Clip on wheel weights run about 4% antimony - on the whole, wheel weights are a great alloy to make boolits with. You can add a small amount of tin, under 4%, and really crank up the hardness if you want on wheel weight alloys. These are just plinking, heck, even competition projectiles out of a pistol. Short sight radius, floating in the air, without a stock - it's unreasonable to expect rifle-like accuracy on paper out of a pistol, and therefore I believe it's unreasonable to try to perfect an alloy - it will be different each time, unless you buy your raw material from a major company that pours a few hundred plus pounds at a time. Generally those folks are equipped to check on the alloy content prior to the pour, and will modify the melt prior to the pour until it reaches their consistency.

I water quench mine right out of the mold, and can get them hard enough that my finger nail doesn't do anything to them assuming I cast at a hot enough temp and work my hands fast enough. With the antimony in the alloy, water quenching will harden up the slug. You can take it further and heat treat them in an oven (that's not used for food, please) and quench with water after the fact for a much better heat treat that can chuck up to 30 on the Bn scale.

I'm just getting into the world of casting with about a year of experience under my belt, but http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ has been very helpful. I deal with nickle superalloys on the heat treatments, and lead is a totally different ballgame from that and steel (which I did for a while at school).

[Fishin6061]

Myself and many other top ramen eating collage shooters are shooting lead for the cost savings. Especially in the 45ACP. Just pick the correct powder to use with lead.

[ebg3]

I've heard some claim that dropping bullets cast from W.W. into ice water can harden them to 20-24BN. I don't water quench and I'm using an alloy that is around 10BNH and not having any leading in my SVI .40. If the bullet fits the bore and you are using a good lube, soft bullets work great at our velocities(<1000fps).

[98sr20ve]

I've heard some claim that dropping bullets cast from W.W. into ice water can harden them to 20-24BN. I don't water quench and I'm using an alloy that is around 10BNH and not having any leading in my SVI .40. If the bullet fits the bore and you are using a good lube, soft bullets work great at our velocities(<1000fps).

I tried it with and with out the water drop. I got really bad leading if I didn't water drop the bullets. They tested about 12 BHN with out the water drop. They test about 18 bhn the way I water drop them now (warm water bucket). That cured my leading issues.

[Aglifter]

Considering someone's riccochet clocked me in the muffs today, I like lead bullets. I don't reload (I don't shoot more than about a match per 2 weeks, though), due to lack of time, but I'm really beginning to like the idea of lead bullets, or JHPs at matches.

[M109R]

The only draw back to lead bullets and I shoot a lot of them is the bullet smoke. If you are looking into the sun and no wind bullet smoke is a issue with lead bullets. Cast seem to be the worst but all lead bullets smoke, don't care what the coating they put on them. For my money lead bullets are a great bang for the buck.

[jeep45238]

The only draw back to lead bullets and I shoot a lot of them is the bullet smoke. If you are looking into the sun and no wind bullet smoke is a issue with lead bullets. Cast seem to be the worst but all lead bullets smoke, don't care what the coating they put on them. For my money lead bullets are a great bang for the buck.

That's more of a powder/lube issue than anything else. What combo are you using?

[M109R]

The only draw back to lead bullets and I shoot a lot of them is the bullet smoke. If you are looking into the sun and no wind bullet smoke is a issue with lead bullets. Cast seem to be the worst but all lead bullets smoke, don't care what the coating they put on them. For my money lead bullets are a great bang for the buck.

That's more of a powder/lube issue than anything else. What combo are you using?

Solo 1000 and thebulletworks.net bullets both plated and lead.

[98sr20ve]

The only draw back to lead bullets and I shoot a lot of them is the bullet smoke. If you are looking into the sun and no wind bullet smoke is a issue with lead bullets. Cast seem to be the worst but all lead bullets smoke, don't care what the coating they put on them. For my money lead bullets are a great bang for the buck.

That's more of a powder/lube issue than anything else. What combo are you using?

Solo 1000 and thebulletworks.net bullets both plated and lead.

Smoke is going to be a issue to some degree. Outside it's not a huge thing for me most the time. I don't shoot them in a match YET but I am getting pretty comfortable with my home made lead bullets and what they can do. I use Solo 1000 and Magma Lube. It's a very hard lube that requires a good amount of heat to flow. I would love someone to show me a combo in lead that doesn't smoke but I am sure thats a Myth.

[Cy Soto]

Given the right circumstances, even FMJ bullets will smoke (albeit less than bare lead bullets). One thing that I have noticed with lead bullets is that the higher the PF, the lower the smoke. I use Solo 1000 for both major and minor 40 and the smoke is more of an issue at minor PF. I think mainly because the muzzle blast doesn't push the smoke as fast as it does with a major PF. Even so, here in Colorado the humidity level is very low and the breeze is always blowing so I seldom notice the smoke when I am shooting; though I do notice it when I play back the videos.

I have attached these two videos from last week's match. My wife is shooting 40 minor out of her M&P and I am shooting 40 major out of an an SA Single Stack. We are both using 180gr TC bare lead bullets behind Solo 1000 (2.6gr in her gun and 4.5gr in mine).

[Jody Waring]

Guys I probally am a bit behind the times, but could somone elaborate their experiences with "bare" lead bullets? I have shot my share of lead, and have cast for several years. I have a 9mm mold that always made me wonder how significant the tiny grease groove was; it holds next to nothing and really couldn't see such a small amount of lube would keep the barrel from leading. I have tossed the idea around of trying to shoot some unlubed ones to see how much difference their was for fouling. I would really like to find out more about the bullets the guys in Australia are using, and I think in Czech there is a manufacturer that are producing "painted" ones. I don't believe they are moly coated, but some type of epoxy paint. I believe they are also very common in Argentina. My big issue with lead is the exposure from handling, I do all of my shooting outdoors. A coating of this type would be really cool to figure out if I guy could do it himself.

[98sr20ve]

Guys I probally am a bit behind the times, but could somone elaborate their experiences with "bare" lead bullets? I have shot my share of lead, and have cast for several years. I have a 9mm mold that always made me wonder how significant the tiny grease groove was; it holds next to nothing and really couldn't see such a small amount of lube would keep the barrel from leading. I have tossed the idea around of trying to shoot some unlubed ones to see how much difference their was for fouling. I would really like to find out more about the bullets the guys in Australia are using, and I think in Czech there is a manufacturer that are producing "painted" ones. I don't believe they are moly coated, but some type of epoxy paint. I believe they are also very common in Argentina. My big issue with lead is the exposure from handling, I do all of my shooting outdoors. A coating of this type would be really cool to figure out if I guy could do it himself.

I cast a Lyman 147gr 9mm bullet using pure Wheel Weights. I water drop them to get a BHN of 18. They weight 155gr before lube. I lube them to .356 using a .357" die. Don't ask me why I need that die to make them come out the right size. I use 3.1 grs of Solo 1000 (a fast single base powder). I use Magama Star Sizer and Magmas Lube. They smoke like you expect. Not horrible but not great. They are lead after all. The single lube grove provides plenty of lube for a bullet going 825 fps. The lube from the previous bullet lubes the next bullet. I get almost zero lead. I just pulled the barrel after shooting about 600 rds and see no obvious leading. I have been fiddling with a variety of things to make this happen. Recently I added a little soldier. I have been casting about 3 months so I am pretty happy with the results.

[lugnut]

What if the bullets were $6 per thousand cheaper?

Where do you draw the line?

I've shot enough lead bullets to know that they're not likely to ever be cheap enough for me to put up with the smoke......

I have a strong personal preference for jacketed and I'm willing to pay for that.....

+1 and I wish others would too... since when RO/SOing I still have to run thru that crap! Hey, if I smell/see something... I'm sure I'm breathing something that isn't good for me. The less the better.

Edited April 17, 2010 by lugnut

[kamikaze1a]

Jacketed/plated bullets are great. But buying cast bullets saves and casting your own saves even more!

The economy of reloading is understood by most of us here so using cast or casting your own should be a no-brainer. IF I could produce my own jacketed bullets as easily or economically as cast lead, I probably would be doing it.

I can not say I "enjoy" reloading nor look forward to casting but I will say that I find it rewarding to shoot ammo that I loaded using bullets I cast. I feel reloading and casting are necessary evils that I have to do so that I can shoot. Finding spare time to cast and reload sure is tough but finding spare money is even tougher...

[freakshow10mm]

I cast my own bullets and have shot them in IDPA indoors with next to zero smoke. I use an alloy of 12 BHN running WSF and a 135gr Spitzer with great results. I will never go FMJ again. Cleaning? Two passes with a Boresnake and call it done.

[sig2009]

Don't do it Kevin. It's not worth the potential health risks. Not to mention the extra cleaning you'll have to do. Plus like you said it's not really that much more cost effective.

Wash your hands and you will be fine. Too much hype about shooting lead and nothing substantial regarding dangers. Yes you will have a problem if you eat them. Anything more I don't worry about!

[sig2009]

Montana Gold $129/1000

Lead $65/1000

That's reason enough for me. For some it's not.

I couldn't agree with you more!

[Boats]

Lead 38's and 45's have been working fine in handguns for over 100 years. It makes no difference to me how much they cost, Lead is clean accurate and gives practically unlimited barrel life. Jacketed adds nothing to the performance.

9mm I use jacketed bullets

Boats

[kamikaze1a]

Have you ever found fired lead bullets? I go looking for them for remelting purposes and some have what looks like all the lube still intact. Most have empty lube grooves but some, if not for the rifling grooves, look like new... Makes me wonder if all that lube is necessary. I used to tumble lube until I got tired of cleaning my seater die, not to mention the dust sticking when you drop a mag. Just a light coat was all that was needed... In my opinion, I found that Tumble lube was way more efficient at lubing in terms of no leading, but messy.

[waktasz]

Just started reloading 9mm and got $1000 fmj ordered for $79. I thought about moly coated but those were even more. No desire to shoot lead at all. I can't shoot them at the indoor ranges I practice at, and don't want to deal with the smoke outside.