Seth Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 But you didn't give a trophy to everybody that shot the match. You gave a trophy to the winners of their class competing against others of the same skill level. They won their respective class. Did they win the match no, but they did win their class. The guy that won... he won. Everyone else didn't win. 1st C didn't shoot with less of a gun or inferior ammo. He shot with inferior skill to the guy that won. I LIKE the class system because it gives me a feeling of accomplishment. I like achieving each Class level. I like shooting against others of similar skill, but it does reward mediocrity. The first time I won High C at a club match, I was thrilled... but I was 60% the shooter of the guy that won HOA. Not much of an accomplishment when framed that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Awards for class are just participation awards, imo. Well said. If you win your class most likely you should be in the next class. and the classification system hasn't caught up with your skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 A shooter is without a doubt NOT a National Champion if they win their class. I have won my class at the Nationals and it only really means something to me and not the rest of the world. I never thought of myself as any form of a national champ for having the class win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Yet you see it in advertising all the time...hell, on the cover of Front Sight! Not enough shooters in the "special class" to be formally recognized at a Nationals YET the advertisers AND Front Sight bestow the "national XXX champion" title like it means something other than about "number 20 loser" Amusing what we do sometimes, in this sport Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 "1st in Class" is not "Best in Show". But it is an accomplishment, and it's not bad, so long as you know what it means. I'd love to be 1st in Class at the Nats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 The way I see it, there's really two sets of "winners" at any match, whether it's a club match or a world match: Comparative rankings against the High Over All Winner, and then the winners in each Division. I put the most faith in the Division break down, as that establishes a level playing field, but then it's also pretty darn cool to do the internal monologue of, "I shot Production and I still beat three guys shooting Open-- WOO-HOO!!!" It's irrelevant to voice this internal monologue, though-- how ridiculous would it be to say that you can shoot your Production rig as well as an Open rig because you beat those three guys while ignoring the other ten Open shooters that left you in their dust. Keep things relative, and all shall remain sane. At the risk of trivializing classes (I really don't mean to-- anybody who hits M or GM has earned bragging rights!), they should be used as a means of establishing perspective with regards to skill levels, but not much more. For instance, let's create an example that you might see at a local match. Let's say a guy is ranked as a C class shooter in CDP, and he has a really great day, plus the local M class shooter in CDP has some equipment failures or whatever, so the C class shooter beats him. Now, is the M class shooter really going to claim that he's a winner of that match because he was the highest placing master in CDP on that day??? C'mon... To answer the original post, I think it's perfectly right and just to say that you're the "Champion of X Division" if you were the top dog on that list, but only one guy can call himself "The" champion, and that's High Over All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I think you can say "I'm the B-class National Production Champion" if you want (and earned it ). It's a little weird maybe, but kinda fun for a while. I used to joke about the "Reigning South Texas Section B-Class Champion Throne" that I won one year and brought to matches to sit on. Of course it was an otherwise unremarkable folding chair, which was about the best thing left on the prize table (back then if was order-of-finish) since it came with 1000 primers. To leave out any of the qualifiers is cheating yourself. I've discovered that to do well in this sport you have to be totally honest with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwhiz Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I hate the use of the HOA when people apply it to classes or even divisions. In any match there is only 1 HIGH OVER ALL. That person is the champion. All other slotting is for decoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Not but ONE national champ...class champions aside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 HOA is THE NATIONAL CHAMPION. Every one else can be proud of the way they turned out. But if you go to a Nationas and you are the only competitor in you division you definately are not National Champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 HOA is THE NATIONAL CHAMPION. Every one else can be proud of the way they turned out. But if you go to a Nationas and you are the only competitor in you division you definately are not National Champion. Apparently this same rule doesn't apply to "catagories".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 If I was to describe my win to someone who didn't know the sport I would say I was first in my class out of XX shooters, and XX out of xxx overall out of everyone who competed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Ellis Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 In my competition skydiving days our team won Intermediate 8-way at the Nationals one year. Back then there were two divisions Open and Intermediate. Open was for the guys who jumped for a living and Intermediate was for the weekend Joe. Although the dives were pulled from the same pool the Intermediate teams did 3 or 4 points (formations) per dive and the Open teams did 4 or 5. This twist in the rules made it difficult to compare scores between the two divisions. So when we won, we really were champions for that division since the two divisions didn't do the same skydives. But the National Champion was Arizona Airspeed, the winner in Open. In USPSA since everybody shoots the same stages on equal terms with the same equipment, class championships don't mean much. The only thing that matters is HOA of the division. Winning class is cool but if you do, quit sandbagging and move up. National Champion of C class. Give me a break. At the only Area match I've ever attended I took 3rd C in L-10. There were no D class shooters. Problem was is that there were only 3 C class shooters. Nobody shot worse than me. Figure it out yet? I placed dead last in the division and still took home a 3rd C L-10 plaque. Means absolutely nothing to me. I don't play the Special Olympics 'get a trophy because you showed up' thing. Been turned off from trying another Area match since. After a match I tell those outside of the sport "I placed x out of XX shooters. xth in class." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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