Guest Brad Stahlberg Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 In another post Loves2Shoot talked about speeding up target transition by prepping the trigger between targets. I've spent a little time on this in the past but never stuck with it for long. I'm curious about any one else's experience with this. I'm thinking maybe I didn't work on this long enough to see any advatage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 With a revolver I go way beyond prep, almost to the point of discharge. Not so with the 1.5 lb trigger on my open blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Depending on distance between targets I think the time difference will be minimal. And it depends on HOW you pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I think I ride my 36 ounce trigger and its pre-travel between targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Tough to do with my 16oz trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I think this is a gun/trigger dependent issue. When I had a 4lb trigger, I always prepped the trigger between targets without any unintended consequences. When I converted to the 20oz trigger/gun, prepping was no longer an option or ADs would be a constant threat. I honestly don't think that prep on a light trigger is nearly as critical as with a heavy trigger. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 There may be a slight advantage if you REALLLLLLY concentrate on performing it perfectly, but I don't think it outweighs the increased possibility of ADing. There are surely other areas we all can work on to save time other than prepping the trigger between targets. Heck, in the heat of battle I don't realize anything about my trigger except that it works. I can't imagine taking the time and fine-motored-skill concentration during a typical COF to do this. I think L2S originally was talking about doing this on a stage like the "eye chart standards". On a COF like that, where we are relaxed and standing still with huge transition distances, it might be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Ok, here is the deal, I've had two world class shooters tell me that to be fast and accurately you need to prep the trigger on as many shots as you can. They may be full of crap, but these are guys who have both been in the top 10 in the WORLD. So I gave it a go, and for me it has really started to pay off. Here are the big benefits for me. 1. I have to stay relaxed. 2. I have to be ultra aware. 3. I have to shoot under control. (If you are someone who hose probably don't have the temperament to do it) 4. If I prep each shot I don't pull off targets early and it makes it easier to call my shot. 5. I am ready to break the shot the instant my sight hits the spot I want to shoot. 6. I don't pause after engaging a target because my mind is imediately telling me to get that trigger preped and to the next target. This might just be a trick of the day for me, time will tell, but I am saving so much time on target to target transitions that I am going to keep plugging away at it. Of course super close targets still get the full auto treatment, but anything other than those I am working at shooting with the prep. I have been watching my tape for Nats and the stages where I really remember preping it well, it looks awesome, no pauses across targets, great hits, and fast times. Man it feels slow but looks (and scores) fast. I have a 2 lb trigger and I can feel when the trigger is preped, if I get tense I have thrown a few early shots, but they woudn't even come close to qualifying for an ad. I used to use a super light trigger, but don't see a real advantage because I can shoot my fastest splits the same with 1 pound or 2 pound triggers. My fastest splits with a witness was .14 (7yards) .13 (5 yards) .1 (3 yards headshot) with a 2 lb trigger limited gun. I was totally relaxed and saw every shot. I don't know why preping the trigger has made such a difference in my times, but it has. You might want to send Frank Garcia a note asking why, I've heard he is big on it and he could explain it better than I'm sure. I just know what my timer is telling me. He did say in a class I attened a couple years ago that when he is in his top shooting form (100k round years) that he feels the prep on atleast 90% of his shots, I had so much else to work on at that time I forgot about the trigger prep thing until someone else brought it up. TDean, Yes, on eyechart standards it took seconds off my time, but even on 3 meter targets I went from .32 to .23 splits. between targets 1 meter apart (Limited and the all A's is nice too) If you already transition that fast all the time then it probably won't help, but it got me there. Right now I am shooting as fast on partial targets as the wide open ones at 10 yards (and from reviewing the tapes of nats that is where the big boys really gain time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old john Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I just returned from one day with Frank Garica. It was a 1 on 1 day and he really pushed trigger prep on all shots at steel and over 8yds at open paper. I think he was correct for me and my STI 2 1/2 lb blaster. His course is great. Old John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 How much slack/pretravel you have makes as much difference (if not more) than the weight of the trigger, I think. Obviously revolvers and stock Glocks have a lot. If you adjust your trigger on a 1911-pattern so that there is no pretravel, then your trigger is pretty much "prepped" as soon as you tough the pad! My Colt (in the shop now) has so little pretravel that most people can't even tell that it's there. The trigger breaks at about 3 lbs, but it feels lighter since it goes as soon as you press! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I prep the trigger if the shot requires it; otherwise I'm pretty much juat wacking away at it. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 BE, What shots require it for you and which don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 It not as easy as saying "this target requires prep, and that one doesn't." or 10 yd full targets don't need to be prepped but 25yd targets do. Its a visual thing, you're eyes can tell you if you need to or not...if you let them. Alot of it has to do with temperment and gross/fine motor skills. I pretty much tap the trigger for most shots (I have gotten down to .13 splits with a stock Springfield .45...6+# trigger, so weight makes little difference...as does travel...for me) and I notice TGO is pretty much the same if not even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Okay, nothing to do with transitions but I've recently been practicing trigger preps when drawing to a popper or plate (I usually just feel the trigger and don't take up the slack). I found out I don't miss as much as when I don't do it. Not quite sure why but prepping the trigger gives me a feeling that "I'm ready" when the sights are on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 When I can make myself trigger prep on the draw and on transitions it does nothing but help. I just haven’t practiced it enough to remember to do it every time. I really can’t see how it couldn’t help. Maybe what I consider trigger prep one may not. At first I was not even touching the trigger until my sights found the part of the target that I wanted to hit. Just touching the trigger took about .15 off my draw and about .10 off my transitions. Touching the trigger and taking up the slack takes another .15 off my draw and about .05-.08 off my transitions. Taking up the slack as been hard for me and the shot sometimes takes me by surprise, which means my sights may not be in the correct spot. First time I did it right I had about a .98 draw on a popper at 15 yards. Hit the popper but I wasn’t prepared for the gun to go off. So I figure that if I can take .15 off a transition and have 50 transitions over a match that's a lot of time. I am not saying it will help everybody this much. But if you are as slow as I am/was it will do nothing but help if you can learn to control your trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 What shots require it for you and which don't? You won't know that until you see your sights on the target. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sincityshooter Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I can't see how it's possible to prep on normal shots with a light trigger. I'm running a sub 1lb trigger and if my mind is working I will prep the trigger on all shots past 20 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Really good thread! Thanks for starting it. For me the trigger prep isn't so much a physical thing as it is mental. If I'm shooting the type of target that I want to "prep" on, then I begin to key in on feeling the trigger take up. A typical practice drill where I prep would be something like a 50yd Bill Drill or running a 25 yard plate rack. So my personal definition of prep has grown to mean "feel it take up, feel it break, feel it reset". It is no longer mechanics now, but rather intention, that prevails. This may just be my own way of interpreting what I see/feel, but I believe that trigger control is way more important than sight alignment on a target like an 8" plate at 30 yards. In my mind, prepping the trigger is a mental mode where I place a very high percentage of my attention span on all aspects of trigger control. And in order to accomplish this quickly, trigger control has to begin before the requirement for sight alignment has been fullfilled, thus in preparation or prep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 This may just be my own way of interpreting what I see/feel, but I believe that trigger control is way more important than sight alignment on a target like an 8" plate at 30 yards. Or like the 20-yard shots on the IDPA classifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I totally agree, Duane! In IDPA, Master is made on the barricade. And for me, the barricade is all about trigger control. But, I'm not sure if my definition is the same as what others are referring to as "prepping the trigger". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Can you define it? Tips on trigger control at the 20-yard barricade on the IDPA classifier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 When I shoot a really difficult shot, I shift more of my awareness into fire control. I isolate the action of the trigger finger from everything else and I am aware of the shot breaking and I am also aware of the trigger resetting. By directing more of my focus into fire control, I get better hits. I don't actually try to do anything a whole lot different, I just pay more attention to what I am doing. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Duane, when shooting my 1911, the thing I key in on at 20yds (IDPA) is feeling the take up in the trigger spring, which I do fairly quickly. Then I pause, let the sights center and then break the sear engagement with the utmost care. If I don't touch the shot off ever-so-lightly, I'll disturb the sights enough to go -1. And there is absolutley no way I have been able to do this fast. I can do the barricade in about 13 seconds down 6, or I can do it in about 16 clean. I just haven't developed the ability to control my shots that well at a real fast pace. In practice I'm going for clean in 16. If I do it long enough, prepping the trigger, taking my time, maybe I'll get quicker at it. I'm usually about 2.0 on the draw and 3.75 on the tac load. I don't know if I have any good tips. But one thing I did figure out. I had been assuming an uncomfortable, and unnecessarily wide, stance to shoot around the left side of the barricade. In USPSA I have a habit of swinging side to side with out repositioning my feet. But why do it here? I've got a full 3.75 second during the tac load to set my feet again. Now, I stand off to one side of the baricade while waiting for the beep and shoot with alot better balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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