Bagging your gun between stages

[LPatterson]

Ok. If I may... what if I come to the line with a stuff sack in my pocket and at HDH I drop the gun in the soft, thin bag, like a small nylon stuff sack? I can't see how it would take more than a moment to dig it out of my pocket and drop her in. Then I can transfer it to the bag for transport.

The RO isn't carrying my bag, its not affecting my performance, and the gun gets bagged and out of the elements.

Thoughts?

As long as you holster the gun first per 8.3.7.3 then tell the RO you want to bag I see no problem. However the course of fire does not end until the RO declares the Range Is Clear, so a fumbled gun (i.e. loss of control) is still a DQ.

[Seth]

I read the rule the same way, but don't see any provisions for bagging.... If clear, hammer down, holster.... seems that the rules force you to go to the Safe Area to accomodate bagging.

2.4.1.1 Casing, uncasing, and holstering unloaded firearms.

[ChuckS]

I read the rule the same way, but don't see any provisions for bagging.... If clear, hammer down, holster.... seems that the rules force you to go to the Safe Area to accomodate bagging.

2.4.1.1 Casing, uncasing, and holstering unloaded firearms.

2.4.1.1 is just one of the descriptions of what can be done in a safe area. It does not control anywhere away from a safe area. This is probably the most applicable rule:

10.5.1 Handling a firearm at any time except when in a designated safety area

or when under the supervision of, and in response to a direct command

issued by, a Range Officer.

So, you ask the RO if you can bag or unbag and the RO "commands" yes, you do it. If the RO "commands" no, you go find a safe area. I don't see any explicit rule against bagging/unbagging.

That said, I don't see many folks bagging but the ones that did didn't seem to add any significant time.

Later,

Chuck

PS: If you have the timer in your strong hand, what is the other hand doing that you couldn't carry a bag?

Seriously, if I carry a bag, it really doesn't get in the way. If it did, I would just drop it anyhow.

[uscbigdawg]

At a local match, go crazy. Heck, there's been time's, while holding the clip board, I've had the timer clipped to the top and I'm doing both jobs, while holding the gun sleeve doo-hicky so the guy can bag at the end.

Anything above a club match, go find a safe area.

Rich

[BSeevers]

I don't carry a gun rag cause frankly my name ain't Friday. If you want to bag then you need to figure out how to do it without my assistance.

I can see a shooter getting DQed for dropped gun and blaming me. Its not flying of course but I try to do the same thing for every shooter and I don't assist others in putting their gun in their holster. I guess Im a harda--.

Hey I have been blamed for AD's before. Shooters said I distracted them. Needless to say I said "no way" and walked away.

[Jadeslade]

I admire all of you who choose to become RO's. It is a great service to the sport. I like the laid back cigar smoking cat bagging dudes philosophy. It is nice to move squads along so your crew can rest, but without shooters you can rest all day. So if somebody wants to bag their gun- let it be. Especially in Reno.

[BSeevers]

I admire all of you who choose to become RO's. It is a great service to the sport. I like the laid back cigar smoking cat bagging dudes philosophy. It is nice to move squads along so your crew can rest, but without shooters you can rest all day. So if somebody wants to bag their gun- let it be. Especially in Reno.

Uh most(all) of us are shooters and we aren't on commission so if there arent any shooters affects us cause we are the shooters.

I suggest working a few majors and then you get a good understanding of what running 100+ shooters in 7 hours involves. Well I guess you can say a RO is paid 'commission". You take a vacation day or two from your real job. MAYBE you get to share a fleabag motel room with another large smelly RO and a couple times I got a free lunch. Oh and sometimes the match is running behind and the RM brings you lunch to eat on the stage while you run shooters. Did I tell you that being on your feet all day running after shooters is a little tiring. I RO because I believe I owe it to the sport. I don't like it.

Walking to a safety area is not usually a problem. At most majors its in or across from the bay. If you are bagging at a club match, well I personally don't get that except for health issues.

[uscbigdawg]

I'll make you a deal. There is one instance where I've let folks bag & unbag at a major. You can unbag, as a squad, at the start of the day and after lunch. You can bag, as a squad, before lunch and at the end of the day.

Done. See Bill's remarks on everything else related to RO'ing.

Rich

[Jadeslade]

I like that deal. I don't use a bag. I appreciate all RO's. I thank them all. Somehow I think that sometime somewhere some shooters stepped over the line making some RO's touchy. C'est la vie.

[Gary Stevens]

At the Nationals one year I actually tried to do a mass unbagging. Wanting to be kinder and gentler I was going to put everyone on a line and on the command we unbagged. Yep, you guessed it, one shooter didn't want to do it. He mumbled something about breaking his routine.

I sent them all to the safety area. End of problem.

[JThompson]

I think it might be more along the lines of "us" as the shooter doing everything we can to make the ROs job as easy as possible. It's a long day running shooters and I want to do everything I can to help them help us. While I won't carry a rug I will let someone bag if they must. However, I think it's cool when the shooters do everything in their power to make my day easier. IE I don't have to yell at people to get out there and tape and reset, and the on deck shooter is right there when it's their time.

It's not without shooters there's no need for ROs, " it's without ROs there's no match!

Take the time to thank them and do everything in your power to make their day as easy as possible. I often ask if they have enough water and if they would like an energy bar. I keep extra in my bag for them and other shooters.

JT

Edited August 23, 2009 by JThompson

[Glockcomma]

I just don't see what the big deal is, here in the northwest a lot of people unbag and bag at the line. With very little practice it can be performed almost as quickly as unholstering and reholstering. When running the timer I don't find it to be difficult to also hang on to a gun rug(and a cigar). It seems to me that some of that old Martial artiest vs Gamer stuff is going on here. If you have a $3,000. race gun that you don't want to be knocked out of your holster your optics and gun rained on(we get lots of rain) dust and dirt to get on and in it, your slide racker digging into your side everytime you set a mover or pick up brass it seems like bagging just makes sense.

[uscbigdawg]

If you have a $3k race gun that will fall out of a holster, optics don't function when they're wet, you lack a t-shirt/towel to dry it, and it doesn't run when dirty and/or a slide racker that's your option to have on the gun, then you should either:

- Get a gun that runs

- Get a gun cover from say Shooter's Connection or SSI

- Carry a towel

- Protect the gun from dirt and dust

- be thinner so the slide racker doesn't poke you

- Remove the racker

All of these do not involve the RO and neither should taking care of YOUR firearm in any condition. There's a safe area. Use it.

Rich

[Jadeslade]

Yeah!

[Flexmoney]

I suggest working a few majors and then you get a good understanding of what running 100+ shooters in 7 hours involves.

Who? Me?

I'll have to try that sometime.

As I have said...the time factor on bagging a gun is a non-issue. Not even a blip on the radar.

It doesn't take 30 seconds and I've never seen (since I've been working the timer at Majors) more than one or two gun baggers in a match. (Actually, I can't recall any...unless it was the first squad coming back from lunch or something.)

[Jadeslade]

Rimshot.

[Glockcomma]

A gun rug takes care of my firearm very well thank you.

[LPatterson]

I just don't see what the big deal is, here in the northwest a lot of people unbag and bag at the line. With very little practice it can be performed almost as quickly as unholstering and reholstering. When running the timer I don't find it to be difficult to also hang on to a gun rug(and a cigar). It seems to me that some of that old Martial artiest vs Gamer stuff is going on here. If you have a $3,000. race gun that you don't want to be knocked out of your holster your optics and gun rained on(we get lots of rain) dust and dirt to get on and in it, your slide racker digging into your side everytime you set a mover or pick up brass it seems like bagging just makes sense.

As an RO I would like to present my side of this discussion. You come to the shooting area with your gun in a bag, I am limited to Range Commands, so my command to you is "Make Ready". You open the rug and the gun falls out or you put it in the holster and it falls out, sorry but you get to go home. Do that in a safe area and any RO will help you by picking it up and restoring it to your holster. I've covered what the rules require at the end of a COF, so you wait until your squad finishes; I am going to insure the range is clear and require that you show clear before bagging because you were outside my control between the time you finished and the time you came back to bag.

It's not about US vs YOU, it is about following/enforcing the rules and treating every competitor equally.

[Ron Ankeny]

I always bag at local matches because I have me one of them high zoot race guns and if I ain't shooting I am working. The only time I reserve for myself is when I am the "on-deck" shooter. After my run I drop my gun rug and magazines in my range bag and prepare to run shooters, take the clip board, pick up my own brass, load magazines, and so forth. Heck, I don't even look at the targets after my run because there is no need. I know how well I did long before the RO starts calling out the hits. I don't want to slow down the match by going to a safe area to bag the gun. If I shoot a division other than open I just keep the gun in the holster. At a major match I always go to the safe area to bag. That way I have more time for myself, I am not hurried, I can reflect on life in general, and nobody complains. Oh yeah, and I end up working a lot less.

[boz1911]

My first thought was I don't really care if someone wants to bag their gun. Normally only takes a few seconds and I've done it myself at the end of a match, then I remembered a person putting their gun in and out of a gun case every single stage at a major match I shot this year. It seemed to take freakin' forever after a few stages so I'll edit my first thought and send the shooter to the safe area.

[Flexmoney]

Well...forever seems like a long time to take.

I can do it in half that time.

I don't, but I can.

I do get to the line sometimes without a gun in the holster. For much of the same reasons as Ron posted.

[Flexmoney]

I'll repeat.

I don't think the RO has the a-thor-a-tay to send a shooter anywhere. (I had an RO try to tell me I couldn't leave the shooting bay once. I was gone for all of 20 seconds, I think. And, I was was working my butt off resetting the stage...never missed a shooter. )

You might make suggestions.

If it's a policy...get it into the shooters meeting or into the match booklet...like they do for a lost brass match.

[uscbigdawg]

The RO doesn't have the authority to tell you to go to a safe area and bag your pistol. However too...after you holster your pistol, if he calls the range clear, you're not handling that pistol without his okey doke, or in a safe area. I'm pretty sure I'll win that battle if you holster it and I call the range clear, 'cause I just won't call it clear 'til it's HOLSTERED.

Now someone tell you that you can't leave the bay is more than a little stupid. Nature does call once in a while.

Rich

[Flexmoney]

Now someone tell you that you can't leave the bay is more than a little stupid.

And, yet...it happened.

Nature does call once in a while.

I think this guy's method was like what Lloyd and Harry did in 'Dumb and Dumber'... just go man!

[kimel]

Of all the silly things that burn too much time for a squad on a stage bagging is pretty minor in my book. Annoying for sure, but minor.

The biggest problem is folks off talking or otherwise messing around and not paying attention to the order of things and expecting everyone to wait while they get it together (welcome to the bottom of the order...next shooter!)

The second biggest problem is folks that don't help reset the stage so one or two people from the squad and the RO staff have to do it all. Not really a good idea for so many reasons.

Un/Bagging at the line is pretty minor compared to those two; however I do prefer everyone come to the line prepared to get with the program. Otherwise my usual sunny disposition wilts a bit.