Open Ipsc Revolver

[Patrick Sweeney]

Let us assume that the BOD might consider Open Revolver. What are the:

Must haves. Equipment or modifications that must be included, or you wouldn't do it.

Deal breakers. Equipment or modification exclusions that will immediately turn you off.

Nice ideas/wild things. Things you would like to see, that wouldn't cause a problem with the other gear, that might pay dividends.

For me:

Must have. Comps, Dots, no capacity restrictions.

Deal breaker. Exclusion of .38 Super from Major.

Wild Thing. .32 Magnum as Minor (Only if loading data supports it. I'll get back to you on that.)

[underlug]

ICORE rules/ KISS principle. Don't muck it up as USPSA is prone to do. Maybe allow for major

[Chuck D]

Must Haves- Scopes, Comps, No capacity restrictions.

Deal Breakers- Exclusion of 38 Super. A high number to make major (would love to see a 160 p.f. for major.

It could be a division or catagory, matters not to me.

[Flexmoney]

I'm always pushing for somebody to shoot Open with a revolver....Open rules apply.

Comped, red-dot, 8-round Super.

Maybe a category, instead of a division would make it doable?

[Ron Ankeny]

Ditto what Patrick said.

Thread Drift Mode:

I wonder, how many folks would shoot Open revolver and would it just split up the revolver shooters we already have?

[phara]

Thread drift:

Would comps really work on a revo at 165 pf enough to be worthwhile?

[Patrick Sweeney]

I think the idea would be to try and lure in ICORE Open shooters, not split the existing pool. Glad to see "my people" are with me on Super-Major and no capacity restrictions. Then again, when everyone agrees with you, you've got to wonder what you've missed.

What about allowing .38 Special to make Major? There is loading data to support it, and a lot less scary than 9x19 Major. (Nothing personal against 9Major.)

It doesn't matter if a comp/ports "work" or not on a Revolver at 165PF, if they aren't allowed the whole thing will fail. Sometimes you've just got to go with the flow.

[Flexmoney]

Patrick,

Any problem with using the current Open rules, just allowing for an Open- revolver sub-category?

That takes care of the caliber, capacity, optics and comp issues. Done, right?

[kimel]

Must Have: get rid of that silly rule about barrel replacement/length. Yeah, I know that is implied in the term "open" but it needs to be said or it will get left in and then we will have a mess.

That rule right there is what is a lot of what is keeping me from even being interested in Revo. As it happens, many of my Revos have barrels that are of lengths never offered by the manufacturer.

Otherwise what Patrick said.

I have kinda been pondering building a revo for steel that would fit in the Open Revo category and this might be just enough incentive.

[Bruce]

Patrick: I agree with your list of 'musts'.

Have followed the debate back and forth on 6 loaded / 6 fired, and find it somewhat amusing. It seems to me a well intended thing that misses the point. The good intention was: We want to be inclusive...and the 6 rule would allow all the owners of revolvers to compete. Well, sadly, there are probably hundreds of thousands of revolvers out there in sock drawers and night-stands, and precious few of them are ever taken out on the weekend to an ipsc match. Why? Because the owners don't compete...and wouldn't compete regardless of the rules. In fact, ask most of the owners what ipsc is and they will have no clue. So, in my opinion, ipsc and the others have to grow first from within, ie., those who know of them compete or, compete more often...or in a different class.

Open class revolvers will allow the 'more than 6 rounders' to play. And play they will, imho. I know I would---and I do not shoot ipsc now.

[diehli]

I agree that a category within Open Division with Open Division rules would be the easiest/best way to go. It should cover everything you've listed, Patrick.

I'm an auto guy, but the prospect of being able to shoot a SW PC 627 .38 Super with a Docter or C-More on it in an USPSA match sounds like fun.

[Bubber]

I would love to see an Open Revo Div. Class or whatever it would be called. I shoot at a couple of local clubs with my revo in open. Usually get a good spanking but manage to win a stage or two from time to time. Paul, I think I came up with a major load for 38 special that shoots real nice. I use a 160 grain bullet with a Accurate #2 improved. It is about 168 PF through my revo and it makes the ports work well. Will try it in the next IPSC match.

[Chuck D]

Bubber:

I wonder if you would be willing to contact me off forum at cdisalvo@frontiernet.net with some details regarding the load you've just described.

I'm curious....

Thank You.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Me too. while I've made Major in a .38 special with Bullseye, to feed a comp I'd definitely be going slower.

[skeeter]

all of these ideas sound great.

i would like to see revo. L10 i've been looking at an 8 shoot smith with full moon clips that i'd like to shoot but want be scored as major.

[spook]

Yeah, great ideas so far. Now if IPSC would change the "no more than 9 shots from one position"-rule to the 8 shot USPSA variant, I would definately go for it.

I would personally let anything with a 9mm diameter score major, as long as it's 160 PF.

Ports and dots of course. But I would still put a limit on the capacity (8).

[Patrick Sweeney]

Oh, a very interesting idea and synergy. Pump revolvers up to eight shots, and take one round off the "single position" rule and wheelguns would not be kicked in the shorts before every stage start.

If the loading data supports it, what about .32 Magnum as Minor? Nine shots for those willing to give up some points.

[spook]

I like the idea of 9 shot revolvers. I don't think IPSC/USPSA will ever reach the point where .32 guns are allowed, though.

BTW, I think it would be really cool to shoot an 8-shot wheelgun in a "Limited-8" Division

[Tom Mainus]

I shot my 627 at the 2001 area 5 match in open class and used 38's to make major. I used a 180grn bullet from laser cast, and VVN350. Can't remember how much powder, think it was around 6.5 grns. Everyonce in awhile the I would get some primers to bulge from pressure but not to bad. When I was loading for the match I was working up the loads with the chrono and I was testing another 8. They were all coming in right around 950. Just where I wanted to be. I had one round left to shoot, pulled the trigger and it seemed like it really kicked. The chrono said 1525, and i couldn't open the cylinder. Hard lesson to learn.

I would love to see open revolver in USPSA. Whether you would draw that many ICORE guys or not, who knows.

[JohnRodriguez]

even tho this is a older post, this is what I am shooting in open class right now. PC627 38 super Revo, it is magna ported with 3/8 in ports every 1/4" spacing for a total of 3 on each side, plus the factory add on port. my ICORE load is 4.7gr of VV-n320 with a 135gr moly coated bullet from "billy bullet's". at the 2003 IRC i cronied 1008, 1008, 1009, fps spread for my three shot's. this also the same load I used for USPSA open class, Last year 2002 at the area 2 championship I shot in open(major) and my load was 115 gr meister bullet with 11.2 gr of VV-N105 super magnum powder, and I was cronoing around 1570 fps. the only bad thing about the load was that my finger took a beating from the serrated trigger.

In my opion, don't even try to shoot major in ipsc, speed rules and we are already hampered by having to reload every 8 shots, as long as ipsc gives us enough distance between shooting boxes we can run with the bottom feeders. also, there is nothing better than making a auto gunner second think his ability and equipment when they are being beat by a wheel gun.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Were I loading an Open Revolver to Major, I don't think I'd go with the 115's. The split time with a wheelgun is going to be a bit slower, so hammering the muzzle back down with super-fast lightweights might not help. To make Major with 158's, you only need 1044 fps. A 135/140 might be just the ticket, cruising along at 1220/1175 fps.

But I'll keep using my 25-2.

[JohnRodriguez]

Actually the gun did not have any muzzle flip at all, I never lost the dot in the scope and you could pull the trigger as fast as you like. besides the 25-2 only hold 6 rnds. the gun i am now using for revo class in ipsc is a 627 6-shot with a 5.5 inch barrel, which I converted myself to use moonclips. I also shoot minor with it and have been pretty succesful in beating all the 610, and 625 that shoot with me here locally. I run both guns with 6lb triggers (Tom M., Cliff Walsh, and Bret Starns tried my trigger this year at to Area II match, and couldn't believe there fingers) If your interested I can get you Vic Picketts phone# he sells the trigger spring kits for S&W guns( he runs his trigger around 4.7 lbs, and his gun will make your head flip out)

[Mover480]

I shoot open revolver now in USPSA Open Division. 8-shot RPM 38 super 125 gr. JHP at 1350 fps -- makes major. Yeah, it sure would be fun to have our own division. In fact, why not make the current Revolver Division an open division. It sure wouldn't bother anyone at our club 'cause I'm the only revo shooter anyway! And for the 5 percent of shooters in USPSA that shoot revos, even if someone complained about the change, no one would care.

It sure is more fun to shoot stages designed for 8 rounds with an 8 shot gun. And that is the way our club likes them. No one wants 6 shot stages! Shooting 8 round stages with a 6 shot gun is no fun. Standing reloads suck! The addition of Revolver Division and limiting it to 6 shot reload has done nothing to increase the number of shooters at our matches. No one shoots it because it is no fun. It just amazes me that the smallest Division in USPSA has the most restrictive rules. Open it up. Revolver Division should be a 'shoot whatever revolver you want' division.

[AFDavis11]

Well just my two cents and they mean nothing but; I love revolver competition but it's too small a catagory to make it interesting. I often "compete" alone. This fact kinda biases my opinion. Personally I think you can use all the open junk you want on a revolver and it won't change the playing field much. And that is a good thing. Really I think the whole division should be "open" to get more shooters into it. But the playing field changes dramatically if you go from 6 to 7 or to 8 rounds (and someone will invent a 10 round cylinder) So maybe one division/Revolver, with two sub categories, 6 rounds and under, and over 6 rounds. Sure you wanna try revolver bring your snubby we don't mind. You wanna add cool stuff to a 6 shooter and play. We don't mind that either. You wanna buy an ugly Taurus 8 shot and hang a red dot with a muzzle break and a super bull barrel and extend the grip over the back of your shoulder, go ahead. Then winner take all in the Division and winners within the sub categories too. Can you imagine an overall winner with a stock 6 shooter. Sure you can. And personally .38 Special and .45ACP both recoil the same to me, at least at the speeds I can pull a double action only trigger. So I say one power floor, just like in Production division. .38 cal is fine. Yea maybe even .32 caliber, what do I care. As long as they start playing and we see some cool guns and your STILL competitive with a stock 6 gun. WOW! What I would really like to see is revolvers get to use red dots against stock auto-loaders! Oh wait thats way into the future, never mind. :-)

[JohnRodriguez]

Actually there is a 10 shot S&W out there, it's owned by Kirby Goodman from Arizona it is a .32 H&R Magnum, an you would have to ask him who built it for him. Bubber might know how to contact him, i have not seen him since october 2002 when he shot the ICORE postal match with us in Rio Salado