sfinney Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I appreciate that here is planning being discussed this early, and the shooters are being asked for their opinion. Thank you. I'm fine with Shreveport, fine with having the match the last few days of Dec, or first few days of Jan..... but by blocking off 5 days of time, and having the '09 and '10 matches in the same week.... that does suggest its such a pain to run the match you only want to run one every two years. Kind of a cop out. Lots of people look forward to the big event every year, making it basically one big match robs us of that enjoyment. And for most folk, I think you are asking them whether they would rather shoot the '09 or '10 Area 4 because most of us have problems blocking off that much time at once. Add in that its a time lots of people traditionally spend with family, it makes for strike two. I understand that the thought is to have it in Summer or the Christmas break so more juniors can attend........ but surely there is a weekend that you can slide it into in the summer months? Or make it a true 2 day format on a weekend in the Spring/Fall? As long as it doesn't conflict with a Nationals, or other Area match, or major match IN Area 4, schedule away. There are conflicts every weekend, but Area and National matches should take precedence. But I respectfully suggest the "back to back" thing is not the way to proceed to get this match back on its feet as the premier match in Area 4, and secure attendance. As to the "traditional" time to have Area 4 - that train has left the station. Lets just settle on a new time slot and be done with it. (besides, who likes shooting in 104 degree 99% humidity monsoon weather anyway?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) The big match---New Year's---followed by another big match...that idea sounds fun. As for it being an area match...sounds pretty cheesy. It sounds like the area match is a pain in the butt for management and it's trying to get knocked out with as little effort as possible. That was my first impression. Who know's? ?Did you say Cheesy? Maybe we could annexed by area, 2? Tom is one great guy thanks for trying to help us Edited February 22, 2009 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911jerry Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 If we have the same winners for 2008, 2009, and 2010, we can save some coin and just engrave the trophies/placques as 2008/9/10...... for qualifying winners..... JS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) Tom, your involvement is appreciated, and I don't mean this to be derogatory toward you at all. I think it begs to have worse attendance than the '08 A4 match - and it would be for two separate A4 matches, so that'd be 3 crappy matches in a row for A4. Moving to the match format you describe would further diminish the significance of this match to the point of effective non-existence. Just my opinion. Dave (edited to avoid A4 bashing that kimel describes below) Edited February 22, 2009 by XRe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Moderators Note: Let's keep this on Tom's original question and not let it slide into an Area 4 bashing contest that will get closed. Thanks! Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 'joseywales' date='Feb 21 2009, 10:52 PM' post='924123']Tom, Good to hear that someone is thinking/talking about getting Area 4 on the 2009 schedule. Regarding a Dec/Jan match - the holiday season in Nov & Dec, and the low temps will keep it off my calendar. "Late in the year" Area 4 matches just don't seem to hold much interest for the usual attendees. 2008 - 120 attendees (November) 2007 - 234 attendees (June) 2006 - 122 attendees (November) 2005 - 244 attendees (June) 2004 - 255 attendees (June) 2003 - 222 attendees (June)[/color] Most shooters have a limited amount of vacation to use in a given calender year. Most will have used their vacation by the end of the year and don't want to burn the new calender year vacation in January. And as joseywales showed us...the Summer time is when you will get more participants. I'm retired and live in Louisiana, therefore, it would not be a problem for me to shoot the match and I would. I just think that for the match to be a success some consideration should be given for the majority of of shooters that have jobs and other responsibilities. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Thanks Tom, for checking in with A4 members, 'preciate it!! I don't know that I would be able (or want to) attend a back to back A4 over New Year's. Weather's iffy, my season would just be getting started (like to take a little break over the winter), and getting time off from work and family at that time is difficult. We could very easily get some crappy weather in the area or around the country which would either make shooting the match not so much fun, or even worse, getting to and from the match downright dangerous. That being the case, I would say the Area is rolling the dice on good weather - because bad weather would kill not just one, but TWO area matches if this were to go forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Tom, We really do appreciate your effort and your skill at working/setting USPSA matches! But, I don't like this format for the shooters and the staff involved at re-setting the match. I shot 2 of the back-to-back Nationals held at PASA in the past, and allowing only 1 day to re-set doesn't allow for much stage originality for the "second" match. The only reason you could get away with that then was because people were forced to shoot a different gun (i.e. open/L-10 or limited/production), that wouldn't necessarily be the case here. Honestly, there was very little difference in the stages at those Nationals. That is not the fault of the setting crew, but more a lack of time allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I don't like the proposed format. I Think the only way I would shoot it as a last minute lark I liked both the 06 & 08 matches BUT! the only Area 4 matches I was able to go to was the 2006 match that had the schedule change and the 2008. I saw plenty of people working hard to make the matches come trough. In 2006 I went out of my way to find Ken and thank him for his work. The Good Times bunch used to put on a great steel match that I would drive up for and shoot my once a year USPSA event. They did a USPSA match and the next day a Steel Challenge match It was fun , I remember some deep water on a few stages in November. I personally don't see a problem with one match followed by another, and I don't see why the shooters shouldn't help with leg and back work to take down & set-up. I don't see Dec/Jan as working I do know that every time a seasoned Area 4 shooters says something about an area shoot I hear how good the Area 4! used to be. I know that I could put on a big Steel Challenge match, but after 16 years I am worn down. Is that what has happened? have the same people gotten over worked and worn down, Or are fewer people stepping up to help? Am I just that stupid that I am the only one that does not know what the problem is? I can be dense some times . I will step up and volunteer to spend two days on setup, I will bring my club props and stands, But the date has to work and need to be able to drive to place in 4 Hrs or less. Coudn't several clubs throw in to make the event better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Tom, Would you mind asking Ken where our placques are for the 2008 Area 4 match? I am still waiting as are the others. Thanks, MLM Mark, I talked with Ken today, I did the paperwork for the plaques today, I am waiting on one more address to come from the San Angelo club and I will send it to Manny on Monday or at the latest, Tuesday. From there I am not sure how long it takes his people to get them done and sent out. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Tom, You are awesome! Thanks a million, I & the others appreciate this a lot. I owe you one & I won't forget. I know one little girl that is going to be jumping up & down. Gamingoddess deserved her placques, she has worked hard this year getting better. You have no idea how much this means, so thanks is not enough but it's all I got. Mark Miller ty46913 Edited February 23, 2009 by mlmiller1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Coudn't several clubs throw in to make the event better? I've wondered the same thing. Get a central location and have volunteer clubs each design and run a stage. If they can supply the props even better. A lot less hassle and a lot more variety. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Tom, You are awesome! Thanks a million, I & the others appreciate this a lot. I owe you one & I won't forget. I know one little girl over in New Mexico that is going to be jumping up & down. Gamingoddess deserved her placques, she has worked hard this year getting better. You have no idea how much this means, so thanks is not enough but it's all I got. Mark Miller ty46913 I got the address I needed from Dale, Manny has them now. tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi, Thanks for the imput from everyone. I talked with Ken tonight and we decided NOT to do this. He has a few calls to make and told me he would try to get it done this week and have a decision. I will keep on him anyway. When I know something I will post it here. Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi,Thanks for the imput from everyone. I talked with Ken tonight and we decided NOT to do this. He has a few calls to make and told me he would try to get it done this week and have a decision. I will keep on him anyway. When I know something I will post it here. Thanks Tom thank you Tom, for all of your work in this case and in everything else you do for our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Tom, you are a saint, your work is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Tom, Would you mind asking Ken where our placques are for the 2008 Area 4 match? I am still waiting as are the others. Thanks, MLM Mark, I talked with Ken today, I did the paperwork for the plaques today, I am waiting on one more address to come from the San Angelo club and I will send it to Manny on Monday or at the latest, Tuesday. From there I am not sure how long it takes his people to get them done and sent out. Tom Even though I did not win anything, this makes my blood boil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Tom,We really do appreciate your effort and your skill at working/setting USPSA matches! But, I don't like this format for the shooters and the staff involved at re-setting the match. I shot 2 of the back-to-back Nationals held at PASA in the past, and allowing only 1 day to re-set doesn't allow for much stage originality for the "second" match. The only reason you could get away with that then was because people were forced to shoot a different gun (i.e. open/L-10 or limited/production), that wouldn't necessarily be the case here. Honestly, there was very little difference in the stages at those Nationals. That is not the fault of the setting crew, but more a lack of time allowed. This is what I was referring to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Custom Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Why don't you just have it the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and then only 10-15 people would attend and it would be real easy to administer the match. It could just be 1 or 2 stages and you would not have to buy very many trophies because there would not be 5 people in any division. You could also charge $500 entry fee and that would also keep the entries down. Area 4 used to be the second highest attended area match now it is the worst, can't imagine why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) One more comment.... I just moved back to the Shreveport area this last year. Currently there is NO USPSA club in the area. You have to go to Texarkana or Tyler, Jackson, MS, or down further south in LA to find the nearest club. There are a couple IDPA type clubs in the Area, but Elvis has left the Building on USPSA (they used to have Bossier Parish Practical Shooters but it dissolved several years ago (long story) and there seems to be little interest in forming a new club (I've been asking around) from what I've been able to determine. So while I'd love Area 4 to continue to be in Shreveport (as I now live here), other than the Clark's range and what they are willing to do, and a few isolated people here/there, ALL of the match crew and workers have to be imported for an Area match. I'm willing to help out, but it sure would be easier to pick a range for the match with an actual active host USPSA club. Just an observation. Edited February 23, 2009 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Good decision not to do this back to back at the end of the year. I don't like shooting in cold weather. Definitely don't like shooting in wet, cold weather. The odds of getting 4 days of 50-70 degree, rain free days in a row is highly unlikely. Family & Travel time of year. I live 10 miles from the range and no way would I shoot the match that time of year. Almost any summer weekend (that doesn't fall on the Sportsman's Team Challenge Nationals) is good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 As I told Hicks the first time he brought up this "back to back, year to year" idea, not just no but hell no. If I wanted to waste my time shooting the same match twice, I would shoot a back to back Nationals again. In my opinion, all of the Area matches should be BEFORE the Nationals, but that is probably just me. I know a few clubs than could easily host Area 4, but not under the current Area leadership. They all see (or experienced firsthand) what happened to San Angelo's hard working folks before, during, and after last year's match. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGentry Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Tom - Thank you for your hard work at Area 4 - It was good to meet you and from what I saw at the match you had your work cut out for you! Area 4 - 2009 - The shooters of one of the largest areas in USPSA shooting deserve to have a good run and well organized match. I am sure I speak for everyone in Area 4 when I say we are down in the mouth about the respect we are given by leadership. Having the match during the holiday's in the cold when we spend time with family is not a good idea for most but not all. The problem with trying to schedule this match is the past reputation and now it will be hard to get clubs to sign on. I think the concerns need to be voiced to the right people so we can get things back up to snuff for the shooters in Area 4! Thanks Again Tom for your hard work and it is people like you that make this sport great!! O yea! Buy Tom's Bullets!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 At the request of the topic starter and because some people just couldn't resist temptation this thread is now closed. I am assured there will be more info coming once things are a bit more settled as to when/where/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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