hotwls13 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have a Dillon 550B setup for .223. I currently only have 3 dies in the toolhead (Powder, bullet seat and crimp). With all the brass prep involved with my .223 brass (most of it LC once fired) I think it's easier to do the brass in the folowing order: 1. Tumble 2. Lube 3. Deprime and Size (I am currently doing this on a separate Lee Turret press) 4. Tumble again to remove lube (this is for a shorter time) 5. Trim and chamfer 6. Swage (Currently using the C&H Tool and Die, but I'm about to order a Super Swager) 7. Put in 550B 8. Prime, powder, bullet, crimp Do you guys think it would better/faster to have a separate Toolhead for the Depriming/sizing? Or do you think it's probably just as efficient to use my Turret? I'm also trimming by hand currently (using the Lee handheld tools) but I plan to rig up a Drill Press to do this soon. Any other tips? I MAY add the Dillon trimmer 1200 at a later date, but it just seems cumbersome and one more Toolhead to setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'd be careful with that "4. Tumble again to remove lube (this is for a shorter time)" part. You could end up with media in the flashhole and have misfires or hang fires like that! Be sure to check the primer pockets for media as well before priming. Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwls13 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 I would think that the Trim, Chamfer and Swage steps would eliminate those problems. How do you guys remove the lube?? Use a towel one at a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Why don't you leave the lube until you have finished the loading process? Then you can tumble the completed round for just a few minutes & not have to worry about the media getting into anything. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The swage step won't necessarily remove the media from the flash hole. Leave the lube there until you're done reloading, then tumble the loaded rounds for a few minutes. Either that or put about 25-50 rds on a towel, grab it by the corners and roll the ammo back and forth on that for a couple of minutes. Either way works fine. Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911user Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 You could use a universal decap die in station #1. It will ensure the flash hole is not blocked. I use a Lee collet die (special neck sizer die) in station #1 to both ensure a clean flash hole and lightly neck-size to better align the case neck if needed. Seems to work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I use a neck sizer.. like 1911user uses... After trimming.. I toss all the cases in the tumbler, with corncob media.. polishes up nice. I've never been one to tumble loaded rounds.. If you go the dillon trimmer route... it's not an extra toolhead.. it dos the sizing in the same step (there are some variations).. but on that toolhead, it would be sizer then the trimmer (and this way for sure use te neck sizer or equiv when loading) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Why you going to all that touble for 9mm? 1. Tumble 2. Put in 550B 3. Prime, powder, bullet, crimp 4. Tumble if I feel like it. I don't think the Lee Lube is worth removing for practice. I have started tumbling for 15 mins on my match ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleStacker45 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'd be careful with that "4. Tumble again to remove lube (this is for a shorter time)" part. You could end up with media in the flashhole and have misfires or hang fires like that! Be sure to check the primer pockets for media as well before priming. Alan~^~ Agreed. I added the dillon universal decapper to station one to clean the flash hole just in case. I like to remove the lube before loading 223 as the powder seems to want to stick in the neck. Also, skip the crimp and you should see better accuracy from your loads. Mule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwls13 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Why you going to all that touble for 9mm? ??? I'm reloading .223 ??? As for the other comments, here is a little more info. 1. I guess the universal decapper doesn't mess with the sizing?? 2. How do you remove the lube from the inside neck of the case to avoid powder sticking? 3. I want/need the crimp due to these being primarily shot out of several different AR's (the action can cause uncrimped bullets to move in the cases) 4. I wouldn't be able to use a universal decapper AND the trimmer in my 550 (only 4 stations vs the 5 on a 650) without removing the crimp die. 5. I have a TON of LC .223 brass to process, just trying to find the most efficient way without buying a bunch more stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I would see if any of your friends in the area has a 1050 and a Case trimmer. It would make your life so much easier if you could set it up to resize, swage, and trim the case all at once. If you can, get several guys to go in together to get a power case trimer. Life will be better! I understand the not wanting to drop a lot of money thing. I think at the very least you need to do the universal decapper to keep the flash hole open. Good luck! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I just posted this on another thread, with the 550 some differences will be there, ie; deswaging by hand after the 1st head process. but the basic steps are there. with one head - (lubing for sizing) size/decap, deswage, trim, then tumble cleaning off the lube. Then (with a different head) universal decaper to remove media from flash hole and primer pocket, prime, powder, bullet, crimp. the universal decapper die does not resize the brass, it only has a decapping pin. this method has worked for me for many rounds... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I just posted this on another thread, with the 550 some differences will be there, ie; deswaging by hand after the 1st head process. but the basic steps are there. with one head - (lubing for sizing) size/decap, deswage, trim, then tumble cleaning off the lube. Then (with a different head) universal decaper to remove media from flash hole and primer pocket, prime, powder, bullet, crimp. the universal decapper die does not resize the brass, it only has a decapping pin. this method has worked for me for many rounds... jj That's my sales rep at Dillon's current favorite way as well. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwls13 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 I just posted this on another thread, with the 550 some differences will be there, ie; deswaging by hand after the 1st head process. but the basic steps are there. with one head - (lubing for sizing) size/decap, deswage, trim, then tumble cleaning off the lube. Then (with a different head) universal decaper to remove media from flash hole and primer pocket, prime, powder, bullet, crimp. the universal decapper die does not resize the brass, it only has a decapping pin. this method has worked for me for many rounds... jj Sounds good. I will definitely get the decapping die. As for the "one head - (lubing for sizing) size/decap, deswage, trim," is the deswage and trim two separate steps? I know about the 1200 trimmer, but the deswage step is cornfusing me. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Yup.. always separate steps.. the 550 can't do it.. it's a separate little Dillon tool The only press that can swage the primer pocket is the 1050. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwls13 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Der!! I'm an idjit. I was reading deswage and thinking dechamfer. I'm scratching my head trying to figure how or why you would want to dechamfer something. Then it clicked. I know about the super swager and that it is a separate manual step for us 550 folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 lol.. I was wondering because you talked about it up top.. no worries. we all do it. If this is for an AR.. you might try some cases with and without chamfering/beveling.. see if it makes any difference at all for you. Benchrest: maybe.. AR: I doubt it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I compared Gracie trimmed brass (trimmer, dechamfer, deburrer all in one step, but is very hard on the fingers and hand) to dillon trimmed brass for accuracy in my ARs. used the same bullet, powder, etc. and came up with... drum roll... the Dillon trimmed brass was more accurate, by quite a margin!!! Bonus!!! don't have to handle the brass at all (after sorting)! prep the brass in one head with the dillon trimmer, tumble the lube off, load it with another head! then shoot it! jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwls13 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hey, where is this "22127 Universal De-capping Die"?? I can't find a price or where it's listed in his store????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEC-Memphis Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Why don't you leave the lube until you have finished the loading process? Then you can tumble the completed round for just a few minutes & not have to worry about the media getting into anything. MLM It is usually not recommended to tumble loaded ammunition (or a least if it has gunpowder in it). (some, most?) Powders have a surface treatment to alter the burn rate. Tumbling removes the surface treatment, and can change the surface to volume ratio, both of which generally increase the burn rate - which might be bad in some situations. Of course, the extent of these effects depends upon several factors, but is dominated by the amount of tumbling (viberating) time. It's kinda like shooting lead out of a polygonal barrel - you know you can get away with it some - but you're just not sure how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Why don't you leave the lube until you have finished the loading process? Then you can tumble the completed round for just a few minutes & not have to worry about the media getting into anything. MLM It is usually not recommended to tumble loaded ammunition (or a least if it has gunpowder in it). (some, most?) Powders have a surface treatment to alter the burn rate. Tumbling removes the surface treatment, and can change the surface to volume ratio, both of which generally increase the burn rate - which might be bad in some situations. Of course, the extent of these effects depends upon several factors, but is dominated by the amount of tumbling (viberating) time. It's kinda like shooting lead out of a polygonal barrel - you know you can get away with it some - but you're just not sure how much. Ammo rides around in my pickup for months at a time. My dad has had the same couple of rounds in his truck for YEARS, and he drives dirt roads all day, every day. We have yet to blow a gun up. My point is that it's ok to tumble your loaded ammo for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I like the You can also use a normally handheld chamferring/deburring tool chucked into the tool holder to I also like the RCBS X sizer die so I don't have to trim after every firing. go to http://www.rcbs.com/ and scroll through their videos on that page. They will have a video of a cutaway X-die doing its thing to keep brass from growing and needing trimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I compared Gracie trimmed brass (trimmer, dechamfer, deburrer all in one step, but is very hard on the fingers and hand) to dillon trimmed brass for accuracy in my ARs. used the same bullet, powder, etc. and came up with...drum roll... the Dillon trimmed brass was more accurate, by quite a margin!!! Bonus!!! don't have to handle the brass at all (after sorting)! prep the brass in one head with the dillon trimmer, tumble the lube off, load it with another head! then shoot it! jj Have you tried that with bolt rifle rounds? As in: Neck Sized and Gracie trimmed, chamfer and deburred. vs. Full sized and Dillon trimmed (and unchamfered and deburred). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 it's kinda apples to oranges, man. the sky is the limit as far as how anal retentive you wanna get with rifle brass prep. If you have a bolt gun and scope combo worthy of all that anal retentiveness, sure be my guest. The one tip I picked up here was to trim with the Dillon toolhead mounted trimmer, after resizing of course, and then toss all that brass into the tumbler. That'll knock off the burs. Then I hear guys are using a universal decapping die on Station #1 of their Dillon press to knock out any media in the flashhole. And then if you are using a boattail bullet it ain't so critical to chamfer. It sounded good enough for our fast paced AR shooting games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 in re-reading that quoted section, I am left wondering as to what would account for the lack of accuracy with Gracie trimmed brass... or said another way, the better accuracy with the Dillon mounted trimmer vs. the Gracie... My guess is that with the Dillon you have more consistency as to how the brass is held into the cutter, whereas with the Gracie it is held by the human hand. It could be that the mouths aren't cut square or that the Gracie somehow screws up the neck tension. What would be interesting is to roll the loaded rounds in one of them thar fancy gauges with the dial indicator to check for concentricity. I am also left wondering if using something like a Lee crimp die for both would negate or cancel out any of the accuracy differences. Just speck-u-latin'... that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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