cjl32 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 (edited) I feel that ignoring the front sight on close targets is how to get that one miss on an open, near target. All A's on the target array and that one "no way I missed a target at three feet!" miss. Edited August 4, 2010 by cjl32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyburg Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Up close I just point my thumbs and they point the gun to the target. Can't miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 With all due respect to Brian, I wish I had never read about Type 1 or Type 2 sight pictures. I had a bad habit on close targets of not using the sights, and reading this gave me permission; it justified my bad habit. I could get away with it on close targets, but I have a whole bunch of mikes because I didn't have a good enough sight picture on targets further away. I still find myself doing it on close targets, but I fight the urge and consider it a bad habit. Maybe when I'm a better shooter I can use this technique to pick up speed, but for now it just increases my chances of a bad shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I follow you Scott. I found, that even on super close targets, I'd do my best shooting at my fastest speed while seeing a razor sharp front sight. Maybe think of Type 1 as just a "definition," or a "possibility," rather than something that should done. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebridge Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I'm not commenting on how I shoot close targets ( that's top secret). When I shoot well I think later and make notes about how I "never pull the trigger", I see target, wait for sights then move to the next target. I hope this is a good thing. I have read the voodoo about the subconscious. I try not to make this happen so when I practice I watch sights and on the good days at a match.... I see them and the gun goes bang. Am I crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I noticed that I was doing the same thing a while back with my airsoft gun while practicing draws. I have seen and read about people with these .8 and lower draw times and I decided to see if I could do it. I have a steel 1/2 scale silhouette target and I set it up at about 7 yards. I could get to that .8 draw time and put a round on target but not when I saw the sights. I was getting consistent times and hits, but when I started throwing in another target, either smaller or just farther away that required me to get on target, the overall times were almost equal. I had it explained to me a few weeks ago about the difference between speed and accuracy stages. I'm not sure I can type it out as clearly as it was explained to me, but the gist of it was that on some stages, time is more important than accuracy. In those stages, I think I would be more likely to use the meat over metal approach instead of being on the irons every shot. Remember, sight picture may well be the side of the slide, rather than exclusively "the sights". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 After about 10 years of hard training, I realized I could shoot A's as fast as I could shoot hits, if I was "doing it right." From then on I abandoned the accuracy or speed concepts when preparing to shoot a stage. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I want to see my sights on the first shot, but I will then shoot from index provided I'm in a stable position. That's about it for no sights these days, if anything at all is non-static, I'm going to confirm sights after every transition and shot. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I noticed that I was doing the same thing a while back with my airsoft gun while practicing draws. I have seen and read about people with these .8 and lower draw times and I decided to see if I could do it. I have a steel 1/2 scale silhouette target and I set it up at about 7 yards. I could get to that .8 draw time and put a round on target but not when I saw the sights. I was getting consistent times and hits, but when I started throwing in another target, either smaller or just farther away that required me to get on target, the overall times were almost equal. I had it explained to me a few weeks ago about the difference between speed and accuracy stages. I'm not sure I can type it out as clearly as it was explained to me, but the gist of it was that on some stages, time is more important than accuracy. In those stages, I think I would be more likely to use the meat over metal approach instead of being on the irons every shot. Remember, sight picture may well be the side of the slide, rather than exclusively "the sights". There are stages where time is more important than time on other stages, but it's almost never more important than accuracy. You pick up time everywhere except while shooting. You may take a shot on the move instead of static, or you may hit a position more forcefully and thus introduce more energy into your arms during the shot, but it's never faster to shoot a C than an A. The other things you are doing to increase speed like transitioning hard, running hard, shooting on the move might produce a C and that can be accepted on a time stage, but the actual aiming and shooting bit should be roughly the same. Ten yards, you want to see the whole front sight in the rear sight, maybe not with equal space on the sides, but in there somewhere on an open metric target, and you'll get the A standing still. On the move it might turn into a C, but you still want that sight picture. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoGrrr Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Brian I know this is an old thread and probably has been beaten to death (HARD focus on the front sight); also I have no idea how old you are (newbie here and I haven't read enough. YET) I'm 62 and I'm having the typical problem us older people have with focusing on many things. I WISH I could have that razor sharp focus on the front sight. What I do is wear glasses so I can focus at closer distances. Yes, the target is blurry and I do have a bit of a different manner of holding the gun when I point in, so I do need some ocular correction to see the sight at that close distance. I'm not a competitive shooter yet and may never be, tho I do have some aspirations to improve my mechanics if I ever have to draw on a thug for real. What are some of your thoughts on that sharp focus when you shoot ? Uhhh, excuse me, mister thug, while I put my glasses on so I can see the front sight that I'm going to put on your chest.... Nice thing about laser sights except when they fail RoGrrr Central Ohio I follow you Scott. I found, that even on super close targets, I'd do my best shooting at my fastest speed while seeing a razor sharp front sight. Maybe think of Type 1 as just a "definition," or a "possibility," rather than something that should done. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Practice drawing to your shooting position until you can consistently hit a 10" plate out to about 10 yards without focusing on the sights. That should do it. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'll admit it. I probably have more misses at under 5 yards than a do at 20 yds+. That is going to change in 2011 as I'm going to use my front sights everywhere. Visual patience is the key for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmie Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'll admit it. I probably have more misses at under 5 yards than a do at 20 yds+. That is going to change in 2011 as I'm going to use my front sights every....... Absolutely - Area 2 was my worse match ever in terms of shooting. But I learned soooo much. Targets are 'in your face'? so how can you miss? Easily. Because they're so close you don't think you can miss and don't use your front sight. And why can you hit a little plate at 30 feet? Because you use your front sight because you know you'll miss if you don't. I learned that I need the same focus at 5 feet that I need at 30. Maybe the Masters and Grand Masters don't, but "I" do. But it's going to take some work to become consistent. It's just too easy to hose when you're up close and personal. Visual patience - I also learned that I was moving my eyes to the next target before I finished with the one I was shooting at. Hence, alpha delta, because my gun was moving right along with my eyes. When is my 'signature line' going to sink into my head????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 you dont necessarilly need to see the sights for point blank/closer shots. You just need to see enough to ensure you get the good hits. That will vary from person to person. for some, they need to see the sights on a 3 yd fully exposed target, others only need to have the gun in the periphial vision of the A zone at that distance. You just need to know what YOU need to SEE to make the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Visual patience - I also learned that I was moving my eyes to the next target before I finished with the one I was shooting at. Hence, alpha delta, because my gun was moving right along with my eyes. When is my 'signature line' going to sink into my head????? This is the biggest thing I struggle with and it really only becomes a problem when I am thinking about speed instead of just shooting. I'm in such a rush to transition that I don't call my last shot. I see the dot return back to POA from the first shot, then I start to move my eyes, head and therefore the gun. What I did that seemed to help is I watch the dot return to the POA after the 2nd shot, This is slightly slower, but it focuses my mind on the 2nd shot better. Then I slowly went back to moving my eyes after the 2nd bounce. This helped me get rid of the horizontal stringing of shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmie Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Visual patience - I also learned that I was moving my eyes to the next target before I finished with the one I was shooting at. Hence, alpha delta, because my gun was moving right along with my eyes. When is my 'signature line' going to sink into my head????? This is the biggest thing I struggle with and it really only becomes a problem when I am thinking about speed instead of just shooting. I'm in such a rush to transition that I don't call my last shot. I see the dot return back to POA from the first shot, then I start to move my eyes, head and therefore the gun. What I did that seemed to help is I watch the dot return to the POA after the 2nd shot, This is slightly slower, but it focuses my mind on the 2nd shot better. Then I slowly went back to moving my eyes after the 2nd bounce. This helped me get rid of the horizontal stringing of shots Absolutely. I don't 'finish' my second shot. If I'm shooting right to left - my 2nd shot is c/d to the left - and vice versa. I was shooting a string of 5 poppers. Right to left. First hit, dead on. 2nd, winged it to the left but it went down, 3rd - missed. By then, my eyes were probably on the 5th popper. I'm missing too fast!!!!! I need to make myself 'see'. BTW - we miss you!!!!! Edited January 19, 2011 by kimmie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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