B.J. Norris Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 I've started to do a few minutes of dry-fire reloads with my eyes closed. Why you ask? If you can hit 99% of your reloads with your eyes closed with good speed, just think what you can do with them open! IMHO, reloads are all about discipline, if you can have the mental and physical discipline to bring the gun and mag to the same place every time, you will nail every reload, and reloading with your eyes closed makes you do just that, bring the gun and mag to the same place every time. Edited to fix grammer....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 BJ, I guess you're going to win that blind-folded speed shoot at the Nationals Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 Dats Right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I only close my eyes when I'm aiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I tried it to see if I could and never did it again. It can be scary at full speed. I worked very hard to train my eyes to look the mag all the way in and I was scared to do anything that might mess up that training. I could see myself doing the "no look" mag change at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Tried doing reloads with the lights off with limited success. Closing the eyes made me feel weird (even with the lights off). Maybe there are only some things we can do successfully with the eyes closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Unless I have a lot of time to reload, I never watch myself do it. I generally focus on the next target or where I need to be to shoot it. This is likely my only really developed skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Where is your awareness when you are looking at the target, and reloading? Is it on what you are doing, or what you are going to do? For me, looking at the target while reloading, means my attention is absent, and disaster is near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted September 6, 2003 Author Share Posted September 6, 2003 Wide45, You can still be focused on the reload, while looking at the target. Just focus on putting the magazine inside your hand, its as simple as that. Once you get the mental and physical discipline, everything and anything is possible. In The Book, Brian talks about hitting a 10" plate at 15 yards with his eyes closed as an awareness drill. I can also say that hitting a Pepper Popper at 10 yards with your eyes closed is possible, as both my Dad and I have done it. Just open up your Awareness, and just Experience what you're feeling when loading with no visual input (eyes closed, lights off, etc). It will also help to visualize the mag going inot the magwell smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I don't doubt that you can be aware of the reload and the target. I did not mean to say that it could not, or should never be done. My point is that there is a wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I videotape a majority of my practice sessions and all of the major matches I compete in. If you really want to know how you perform...this is a good indicator. In regards to reloading...I reach for a mag without looking (through practice, I KNOW where they are on my body). I "feel" my way to the proper hold/grip on the mag, I catch a quick glance at to the location of the magazine in comparison to the mag well...I re-aquire the target(s) with my eyes and THEN insert the magazine. In all honesty, my eyes shift to the gun during the reloading process for such a short period of time that in all actuality I might as well perform the task with my eyes closed. If I'm moving from box to box or firing point to firing point the tape has shown that I NEVER look at the gun...I'm looking at where I have to go instead. There is nothing wrong with developing a "feel" for what your doing and where you are. Just keep in mind that it's not as easy as it sounds and you will need to work at it to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Generally I think about the reload about as hard as I think about the draw. Once I think "time to reload", I just do it. After that I get myself ready for what's next while maintaining a minimum amount of observational thinking concerning the reload, mainly centering on when I'm finished and can continue shooting. I do the same thing with ARs and pump shotguns, but am forced to concentrate on reloading if I'm shooting something that I don't have 25 - 35 years of practice with. I've been reloading some form of SS 1911 since I was 5 years old. Basic marksmanship, general gun handling, and reloading is about all that I brought to USPSA. Everything else is just hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I have done this in the past. I reflected on knowing I could do it when making my reload in the dark house stage at FGN this year without any light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I am with single stack on this one. I can literally slam a mag into my fat gun with my eyes closed, but why bother? Reloading a single stack wihout visual cues is a disaster in the making. I look the mag right into the pistol. The human eyes are extremely fast. I can shift my eyes from the mag well to the exact spot on the target that I want to hit in a small fraction of the time that it takes to seat the magazine and present the pistol, so why take chances on blowing the reload? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I thought I posted here already.... There is an old thread around here somewhere on dry-fire reloads with the eyes closed. I actually tried a some a few days before BJ posted this thread. I've been trying to do my reloads up highier...more in front of my face. When I tried it eyes-closed...my body naturally wanted to do the reload at the top of my sternum. Food for thought. (BTW, I dropped my light in the Dark house at the FGN...nailed the reload in total darkness. Of course, I couldn't see the targets until I got the light back on. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I am with single stack on this one. I can literally slam a mag into my fat gun with my eyes closed, but why bother? Reloading a single stack wihout visual cues is a disaster in the making. I look the mag right into the pistol. The human eyes are extremely fast. I can shift my eyes from the mag well to the exact spot on the target that I want to hit in a small fraction of the time that it takes to seat the magazine and present the pistol, so why take chances on blowing the reload? Yep. I do them blind sometimes also, just to focus on the feeling of my muscles when I am doing a reload, not so that I can do one without looking. I have done a zillion reloads, and I would rather watch every one since it takes absolutely no more time to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 I think Ya'll are missing the point. It's not the fact that you have to do them, its that you can do them if the stage calls for it (I.E. FGN Dark house = zero light and you had to do the reload by feel alone. I also remember that I ended up nailing not 1 but 3 reloads in there ). The point is that you should be able to take whatever is thrown at you. Be it a dark house, or a 50 yard shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 G34, I think there is more than one way to solve that problem. Though I think most people can reload eyes closed if they have a minimal amount of training. If I knew I had a stage in the dark I would break out the glow in the dark stickers and put them on the bottom of my mags and inside the lip of my magwell (I have a piece of white tape there now), just in case they I tripped and they all fell out of their pouches If you are going to shoot in the dark, bring the right tools That is why I have a light rail on my limited blaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Tough crowd BJ. You all ought to take a listen to the Young Master...you might learn something about your shooting (then again, you might not ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 If we can can draw without looking. Why can't reload just the same witout looking? Why is it always "Why take the risk of blowing the load"? Why can't it be "We just do the load normally, only with our eyes closed and we will not blow this load"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 You can draw without looking, because your holster is always is the exact same place. I personally draw by braile, that is follow the holster from the end of my barrel to the grip. Yes, I can draw just by grabbing it, but I get a more consistant draw if I feel the holster on the way to the handle. If I am in a wierd position, I look at the gun. If you can reload 100% of the time with your eyes closed as fast as if you use your eyes, then you have found another way. From my experience I am FASTER if I look at it all, sight rise, mag on belt, mag well, and sight. At 3 yards for an 85% A hits this I can see all this in .8-.9 cold with the fastest being in the mid .75. The thing is G34 that if your eyes tell your body what to do then it just does it, and the eyes are so fast that it makes it faster and more consistant. If you go by guessing where everything is, then when you guess wrong then you WILL blow a reload. Try this, can you reload to any of your mags on your belt with your eyes closed with all of them on the belt? Say reload 3rd mag then 1st mag then 2nd mag, or any combination. You should be able to and the times should be about the same. If you can then you have found a way that works for you and you can ignore the advise to the contrary. If you can't, then don't feel bad, because looking at everything you do is just as fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 OK, I confess to replying to the thread without even trying to reload without looking. I was practicing reloads with my single stack before work this morning so I gave it a whirl. I set the timer to a par of 1.8 seconds and commenced to doing reloads with my eyes closed. I was quite suprised to discover that the magazine slid right in the pistol without a hitch and the sights were even aligned on the target when I opened my eyes after dry firing. I did perhaps half a dozen reloads with my eyes closed. Then I started fooling around by moving the pistol to different positions and the magazine still found it's way into the pistol very consistently. It was a cool feeling and quite the confidence builder. I set the par time to 1.6 seconds and I had a great deal of difficulty making the par time every time with my eyes closed. A 1.6 second reload is about what I run with my single stack day in and day out. I can hit the magwell on a fat gun a lot faster. I suppose the drill is worth doing and I think it is a real hoot. I will no doubt incorporate the drill into my dry fire practice but I won't beat it to death. It's a good feeling knowing you can reload and present the pistol in the blind. On the flip side, I will continue to look to the magwell on my reloads followed by looking directly to the spot I want to hit. Not looking the magazine into the pistol in a match doesn't make sense (to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRNinTX Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 BJ is reloading a G34 with no magwell, and yes, he can consistently do sub-second reloads with his eyes closed. When he reloads the gun never stops moving, he brings the gun and the mag together and then back to the target. Of course doing 200 reloads/session is probably a contributing factor to breaking a mag catch spring twice! I know he does not do this in matches, but it does build the confidence to know that you can nail reloads without conciously thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 People who can consitently so sub-one second reloads are very rare and blessed individuals. I have reload envy, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Although for different reasons i believe BJ has a great idea here. first is the confidence part this is more of a test of ingrained fundamentals. Second you should HAVE to look, but just confirm it. Personally i reaload about my chin. why. well because 1 it keeps the gun up and ready to go back into action. if i'm tac loading and am charge. haha ( sick joke but could happen) if i still have a round in the chamber and need it badly. ... a pistol is a great blunt instrument too. also if i trip or run into a baricade the gun isn't twised up in my pile of flesh. and i can keep my eye on the target (movers, drop turners, bobbers and where i am running to! lastly after the reload its quicker and easier for me to address the next target less indexing just bang i'm on top of it. ......And its the only place i can do a sub second reload with my production rig! as for in the dark. i realize we are all "gamers" but how many carry your gun for defense. or have it in the house for home defense. .... what are your chances of a daylight incounter. (for those not up on stats you have a 97% chance of using your firearm in LOW to NO light as far as encounters go that are reported) so, i would say your chance of having to reload are even less in day time as you can see to make the hits better. Lastly. how many people here have shot at a night shoot. they are fairly popular around here. if not just at night, low to no light stages with indoor bays its possible even on the brightest day and there is an IDPA club that does that to us and quite a few state matches also. so, its a really kool skill to have.. as is shooting with a flashlight and reloading with one in your hand. I recently took a night class to ken hackathorn. the end culminated in a shoot house.. pretty damn freaky after a 12 hr day and mean looking targets! besides who's attacked when ready for a fight? i can NOT remember reloading my gun. i can remember the though SHIT EMPTY then seeing more muzzle flash. when i was done i hear " smooth reloads" and thought.... reloads???? then realized my 4 mag belt pouch was empty and i had the last one in my gun. so i had 4 blind reloads with a light in hand. .... (no lanyard either) If you are prepared for anything and everything nothing will trip you up. thats nationals winners are where they are, they've seen it all and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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