dcbfluff Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't really know that many GM's personally, but those I do know are pretty focused to the point that they are not going to decise to shoot a match just because of the match fee. Match fees are just one part of the total expense of shooting this sport. There are not that many "Paid Shooters" in this sport, (folks that are fully sponsored to shoot), and we all know the match fee is just the start of the expense. Perks for being a GM: yea sure, I'm for it, they have paid their dues. Thinking you can attract them to your match based on waiving match fees, no, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Never heard of such a thing but I guess it would be incentive to get your GM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm thinking about shooting this match simply because I've heard it's a good one and I've never been before. As for the "GMs shoot free" deal, as long as my match fee doesn't go up - it's all good with me. Dave made a good point that the prize table is random draw (which I don't particularly care for) so the top guys won't necessarily be walking away with all the "good stuff". I can see where some may take exception to the "free" policy, but the guys who have EARNED this distinction probably deserve a little credit for committing themselves so fully to our sport. I wish more matches would allow Juniors shoot for free - there's typically only a few and they are the group that will help ensure our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I have never made a decision to go to a match because "GM's" would be attending. Personally, I think the GM's should pay the same as everyone else. This is much more of a participation sport than it is a spectator sport. Actually this makes my point better than I could my self. It is a participation Sport , and any time I shot with a better shooter and I did not learn something Valuable,....it was my fault. I agree, I try to learn what I can from better shooters, but I'll learn just as much if they pay the same fees all of us do. I wasn't aware GM's weren't attending matches that charged them an entry fee. I have never encountered a shooter that wouldn't answer a question yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm thinking about shooting this match simply because I've heard it's a good one and I've never been before. As for the "GMs shoot free" deal, as long as my match fee doesn't go up - it's all good with me. Dave made a good point that the prize table is random draw (which I don't particularly care for) so the top guys won't necessarily be walking away with all the "good stuff". I can see where some may take exception to the "free" policy, but the guys who have EARNED this distinction probably deserve a little credit for committing themselves so fully to our sport. I wish more matches would allow Juniors shoot for free - there's typically only a few and they are the group that will help ensure our future. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstroyed Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm thinking about shooting this match simply because I've heard it's a good one and I've never been before. As for the "GMs shoot free" deal, as long as my match fee doesn't go up - it's all good with me. Dave made a good point that the prize table is random draw (which I don't particularly care for) so the top guys won't necessarily be walking away with all the "good stuff". I can see where some may take exception to the "free" policy, but the guys who have EARNED this distinction probably deserve a little credit for committing themselves so fully to our sport. I wish more matches would allow Juniors shoot for free - there's typically only a few and they are the group that will help ensure our future. In past years there has been some cash for placing. I have actually earned or held it but i know someone who has. I hear you on the Jr shoot free. Some discount some don't and that is both big match and a local level. This match will be my sons last Jr match so won't do me much good after that. But i know what it takes to pay the way and i wish it was less so we could have more Jrs involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 OK I put this down at the same time Cen Tex was doing his post. & shooting is not Motor Xso just in rearguard to shooting I don't understand the "Its not rite" comment. I don't see any reason that other shooters have to pay more because a few GM' s shoot for no fee. What does it cost to add one more shooter to the event. I can not imagine a shooter making his way to the top with out helping many shooters on the way up. I have considered it many times for my club matches. In Fact Bull Frog Mouth kicks in rite now. " If a GM comes to my match" they will shoot for free. They still have to help just like everyone. The only reason I can shoot worth a darn is because of the M level and GM shooters that helped me. sometimes just by showing the way and sometimes by dragging me along like a dead weight. Guys Like Shred, Xre & Steve I remember shooting a match with Brian Enos in 1992 I should make out a check and send Brian his match fee with interest for that match. +10 Well said Jaime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm3gnr Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I have attended the Space City Challenge for the past three years ( Since I started shooting USPSA) I always look forward to the application to come out. I was a little thrown off (for about a minute) when I saw that GM shoots for free. After a few minutes, I thought, this is great ! I learn from everyone I shoot with ! And shooting against the best will only show you where you actually stand. When I got to the Gator this year and found out that there where not enough GM in open to make your placement count, I was a little bummed. A lot of matches give slots away to sponsors in return for prizes, and most sponsors send in their GM team members to fill the spot. So this is not a big deal, it goes on at many matches, you just don't hear about it. This match is worth attending, It is always a fun and challenging match, It definately is not a hoser match, you better aim (at least that is the way I have always seen it, and I have forgotten a few times to use my sights). Dave, I am glad to hear that you are gonna shoot this match, we missed ya last year ! I beleive that a draw prize table is good, that being said, I have only drawn something at this match one year, Oh well, that is the way it goes. Pick your matches, Sign up, attend, and get out and shoot this year, It's gonna be fun, and beats working even on a bad day. Damon Stanforth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 When I raced professional motocross...What years did you race pro? Maybe I got to watch you!I have no problem with GMs shoooting for free or for Pros racing for free. MX is the only sporting event that I would ever attend as a spectator, but if I'm at a match, I sure want to watch the GMs to see how it should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) When I raced professional motocross...What years did you race pro? Maybe I got to watch you! 1970-1973 Edited January 14, 2009 by CenTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Very cool! I only barely made B class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 As a Major Match Director, I've given it lots of consideration. We often see Junior discounts...Ladies discounts. I played around with giving a 100% discount to "last year's winners" to defend their division win (50% if they jumped divisions). Any of that is likely a net gain on revenue for the match. Generally, you get extra paying competitors to the match that you wouldn't get otherwise (father, husband, shooting student, travel partner, etc.) Beyond that, I believe their is a long-term benefit to increasing participation and competition like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I wish more matches would allow Juniors shoot for free - there's typically only a few and they are the group that will help ensure our future. We talked about that in the Mid-Atlantic Section a few years ago. I supported the idea initially, until I was convinced by a match director/father of a regularly competing son, that there was a lesson to be learned by having to pay some money to shoot.... We settled on a reduced entry fee for juniors shooting by themselves, and a different reduced entry fee for juniors shooting accompanied by a shooting parent..... I'm not much in favor of free entries to GMs or anyone else. Flex's idea of letting returning champs defend their titles however I could probably get behind..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 In the big picture, the match entry fee is small change compared to all the associated expenses of going to a match. As for a free entry to a match just being another perk for the GM's, Heck yes! They worked hard to get to that position and deserve to be so recognized. Ask Xre if it was easy. From a "B" class shooter (been one since 1986 and still going strong), it will be great to have sufficient GM's in Open to get it recognized. Plus I want to know just where I stand skill wise to a truly good shooter. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) When I raced professional motocross...What years did you race pro? Maybe I got to watch you! 1970-1973 Cen Tex If you bring me an autographed photo of You like this one. I will let you shoot free too. That is one cool photo , Edited January 15, 2009 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 When I read the title of this post, I thought it said " Grandmothers " and I thought, how cool is that ? But then I thought about how the Grandfathers would feel. Then it occurred to me that the Grandfathers would want to go because the Grandmothers were there so they should like it just fine. I'm OK with Grandmothers shooting a match for free. The more the merrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 When I read the title of this post, I thought it said " Grandmothers " and I thought, how cool is that ? But then I thought about how the Grandfathers would feel. Then it occurred to me that the Grandfathers would want to go because the Grandmothers were there so they should like it just fine.I'm OK with Grandmothers shooting a match for free. The more the merrier. Watch out kid, I don't like the way you say ...Grandfather... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 When I raced professional motocross...What years did you race pro? Maybe I got to watch you! 1970-1973 Cen Tex If you bring me an autographed photo of You like this one. I will let you shoot free too. That is one cool photo , Jamie, I have boxes of old MX photos, I'll never have to pay at one of your matchs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Cool bike... the head alone probibility weighs as much as a modern engine, there is enough tail pipe to put on a pinto station wagon, and what do you have with those shocks, like 3 inches of travel? that's old school! Technology sure has changed over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 The Pro-Am aspect of this sport is really appealing to me. I like shooting with GM's. I like seeing shooters that are so highly skilled that I don't have to wonder if there is anyone on the planet that is significantly better than these guys right here. I could never hope to golf against Tiger Woods or play tennis at Wimbledon. And that's why the American action shooting sports like USPSA, IDPA, SASS and NRA totally rock! It's 100% Big Boy Rules. (And we don't care who your daddy is.) If you find a free match entry for a GM too offensive, then attend a different match that weekend with a different cost structure. If it is offered too frequently, it will lose it's ability to draw extra GM's anyway, since everyone is doing it. Just my "free" opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I am going to express my opinion purely because I can, I guess. I personally don't think GM's should shoot free. I know they have worked hard, really hard, & put in lots of $$$$ to get where they are. However, I don't go to matches to see them shoot. I go to shoot. The best shooter gets his(or her) reward by winning. Not rewarded for just showing up. Merely my opinion. It won't stop me from coming & having fun. I will state one fact as it applies to me. I would not go to this match where GMs shoot free purely because the GM is shooting free. That would not inspire me to come shoot the match if I wasn't already planning to do so. This is not an attempt to belittle GMs in the least. I have all the respect in the world for most of them. Many are genuinely nice people willing to help out others & do their part at the match. This post is not meant to tear anyone down or hurt any feelings, it is just my opinion. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Free entry for Jr.s and Ladies, not GM's. Promote the sport from the bottom, not the top. The GM shooters will be there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Cool bike... the head alone probibility weighs as much as a modern engine, there is enough tail pipe to put on a pinto station wagon, and what do you have with those shocks, like 3 inches of travel? that's old school! Technology sure has changed over the years. Hey, that was state of the art, had 3 1/2 inches of shock travel. That was the last year of the of the old style suspensions, the factory riders had the new suspensions, the next season all the production bikes had greatly the increased travel. The mono shocks, laid down shocks, etc. made a tremendous improvement in handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranDoc Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I'm shooting Space City because I'll be in Houston/Austin for something else then. Good chance to run with XRe and meet the faces behind some of the other Forum names. The 'GM's shoot free' thing doesn't bother me. The $120 match fee for the rest of us civilians was a bit surprising though .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 My initial gut feeling was negative, so I understand both sides. However, if it leads to the match having more GMs, such that it would generate a classifier score, that is a positive for me. That would make those results mean more to me as the best gauge of my performance and progress. Shooting a big match and not seeing where I stood against GMs falls short for me. So if it takes some special pricing or free shoots to make that happen, I'm ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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