ebg3 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This gun has always run minor ammo flawlessly. So that lead me to thinking that it was sprung too light. We increased recoil spring weight until it would short cycle minor ammo. It now has an 12# recoil spring in it with an 18# wolff mainspring. It continued to run major ammo flawlessly in the practice session after the spring change. Originally it was supposed to have a 9# variable commander length spring in it. Are you using a shock buff? Try using one or take it out. Does the Aftec seem to be installed properly? Make sure it isn't clocking and that it can pivot a little on the firingpin stop. That's all I can think of for now. Maybe it will be helpful. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yeah, but if the gun is puking at least once per stage on 3/4 of the stages the rate of occurrence is a lot higher than that!Hey, now I mentioned ammo in post #6 I actually missed both of those things reading through the thread... still... I'm on board w/ ammo being a possibility, if the extractor setup is only working on brass on one side of the tolerance spectrum... Edit to add: I don't know about anybody else, but I've tried to get my guns to short cycle or malfunction by running my thumb on the slide as hard as I could...didn't cause a problem. I can get the gun to have failures to feed, but have never made one fail to extract or stovepipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The extractor doesn't have enough travel to maintain tension, the extractor needs to have the strike point closely examined, and the top round in the mag is helping knock the case off the extractor before it gets to the ejector. Also look at the inside bottom edge of the ejection port for brass marks, you wouldn't think you can get the ejection too flat but it IS possible and can be randomly too flat with brass issues. Wanna fix it once and for all? Fix the things I mentioned, VERY closely scrutinize the brass making sure none gets in the gun unless the extractor groove is more or less pristine, and have a great time blasting. If that is too much or beyond what you guys know what to do, not a dig on you guys-it is getting pretty technical, put a Barry mount or the new mount Matt Cheely is coming out with on it and shoot on. The mounts that open the ejection port up will turn a gun like this into an ammo trash can, if the ammo physically fits in the gun it will run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can get the gun to have failures to feed, but have never made one fail to extract or stovepipe. I can get mine to malfunction just by putting a mag in it and shooting. I don't remember the last time mine worked reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can get the gun to have failures to feed, but have never made one fail to extract or stovepipe. I can get mine to malfunction just by putting a mag in it and shooting. I don't remember the last time mine worked reliably. LOL, time to send that one down the road, either to someone that can fix it or to someone that will get it fixed. Life is WAY too short for equipment problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I can get the gun to have failures to feed, but have never made one fail to extract or stovepipe. I can get mine to malfunction just by putting a mag in it and shooting. I don't remember the last time mine worked reliably. LOL, time to send that one down the road, either to someone that can fix it or to someone that will get it fixed. Life is WAY too short for equipment problems. I don't have the funds to fix it and nobody will buy a gun with a hole in the slide (don't ask). What I need is a gunsmith that will give me a gun and I will put my name on his shirt and I can advertise for him. But nobody sponsors juniors for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Sure they do, Brazos helped BJ for a long time the way I remember it. He was sort of a child prodigy though, a junior that isn't a GM beating most of the other GM's has about as much chance of sponsorship as the rest of us LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) I guess so. But he got out into the spotlight. They never look for the ones lurking just in the shadows. The ones that cant already afford open guns and can't make it to Nationals are'nt the ones that get sponsored. It's the ones that can afford bullets and match fees and top end guns that get sponsored. I know quiet a few juniors that are very good but they don't have the money to get into the spotlight. A friend of mine and I have even been on Shooting USA and we still did'nt get talked to. It's just not the thing for juniors. A couple of guys I know would have 10 sponsors if they were 15 years older. Edited January 12, 2009 by newopen GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This gun has always run minor ammo flawlessly. So that lead me to thinking that it was sprung too light. We increased recoil spring weight until it would short cycle minor ammo. It now has an 12# recoil spring in it with an 18# wolff mainspring. It continued to run major ammo flawlessly in the practice session after the spring change. Originally it was supposed to have a 9# variable commander length spring in it. Ejection angle? I had one that did this and had to change the strike point and all was well. I ran minor like crazy... major would stoe-pipe every few rounds. Long ejector and follow Brazos ejection perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I guess so. But he got out into the spotlight. They never look for the ones lurking just in the shadows. The ones that cant already afford open guns and can't make it to Nationals are'nt the ones that get sponsored. It's the ones that can afford bullets and match fees and top end guns that get sponsored. Sorry to bust up your little pity party, but you don't know squat. For starters, how about you ask BJ and/or Bob how BJ got noticed and picked up. I'll give you a hint. He wasn't at the Nationals, and wasn't shooting an Open gun... try he was shooting Production, with a Glock, and IIRC, he was not winning big matches or placing near Super Squad level at them. What got him noticed was his dedication, determination, and focus... What took him further was a lot of really hard work. Not a lot of standing around, whining about how no one's noticed him or given him the easy free ride. What sponsors notice in Junior shooters is their level of maturity, responsibility, and dedication - and their level of skill. Posting stuff like this, you have at maximum one of those things. Think about it. Stop playing the "poor me" card, get over yourself, and start working hard on shooting successfully. If other things are meant to happen, they will - but with that attitude, no one's going to have much sympathy for your predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) Sorry. I made the mistake of believeing what I have heard. I've known BJ for about a year and a half now, I guess I just forgot to ask him about that. It was'nt meant to be a pity party but I guess it kinda went that way. Excuse me for the misconception. Please try not to jump me in the future because I was misinformed. I apologize to BJ as well if he reads this. Please do not judge me by my lack of thinking before I type. It's one of those days. Edited January 12, 2009 by newopen GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 OK....back on topic, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I sponsor 2 juniors but in 3-gun. Their dedication was observed by me for about a year & although they did not have the equipment to win, they gave it their all & now have the equipment & will prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I sponsor 2 juniors but in 3-gun. Their dedication was observed by me for about a year & although they did not have the equipment to win, they gave it their all & now have the equipment & will prevail. We need more out there like you Benny. We dump a lot of money into the manufacturer's pockets and, it seems to me, they could do a bit more to give back and assure they have another generation to sell too. ~Thread Drift off~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I had MAJOR issues with two STI trubors in 9mm. The step in the breachface (only .012 ) was enough to goof extractor function With light loads they ran much better than with major loads...higher slide speeds made the extracted cases drop farther...and exacerbated the problem. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I sponsor 2 juniors but in 3-gun. Their dedication was observed by me for about a year & although they did not have the equipment to win, they gave it their all & now have the equipment & will prevail. We need more out there like you Benny. We dump a lot of money into the manufacturer's pockets and, it seems to me, they could do a bit more to give back and assure they have another generation to sell too. ~Thread Drift off~ Nevco Targets is working on a junior team a piece at a time. Back on topic now. My gun has mag issues. It will only work with mags that have Grams guts. Anything else and it crashes and burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have had the exact same issues the OP described. I switched to a single sided Allchin mount from the serendipity and all of them have gone away. I now have 3 holes in the frame but i really do not care. It runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/ejection%20perfection.htm I also had a mag that presented the round very high in the front and I think it may have been hitting the case as it was ejected causing it to come out of the ejector. I think Howard may have said this too. Timing can also cause this issue, but I think it very unlikely if it's a Hardy gun, unless someone has replaced a barrel or something. Edited January 13, 2009 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The only time I have shot it in a 3 stage indoor match it ran fine. I have considered that something is happening under match pressure but can't figure out what it could be other than adding faster movement in and out of position. My thoughts are that if a gun is to be that finnicky....its worthless. I wouldn't declare it finnicky and worthless if it only happens to one shooter. I loaned my 9x21 open gun to a new shooter for a match. In the first three stages he had jams and was ready to give up. We switched guns. For me it ran fine. And with the other gun, the new shooter had jams on stages four and five. It ain't always the gun. Some people just need to shoot revolvers. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Howard.....thanks for the advice. We are going to pay close attention to the extractor strike point and see what we can figure out there. I think also we are going to go to a single sided mount to open up the entire side of the ejection port. From the best I can see in the videos we shoot. It looks like the leg of the Serendipity on the ejection side may be part of the problem. As for brass......we've run all kinds of matched headstamps. It seems to have issues with all of it. We may ditch the AFTEC for a Dawson Extractor and Ejector and see how that goes. We are going to try a different grip frame as well and see if that changes how the magazines sit in the gun. The height of the mags is not specific to any one mag. It places the rounds high in all mags when inserted in this grip frame. We can put his mags in my gun and they sit much lower below the ejector. I think this may be this next try before anything else. Thanks for the tips Howard. I will report back after tomorrow nights match and see how it runs with a different grip. Also.....what is an ideal ejector length for 9 major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 going to try a different grip frame as well and see if that changes how the magazines sit in the gun Before doing that, maybe try a different mag-catch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) I can send you one of Matt and I's mounts for you to try and see if it helps... If it does fine, pay for it, or get another one from another vendor. Either way it won't cost you $100 + to test it. You just pay the shipping there and back. Edited January 13, 2009 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think you need to give me that gun the next time I head over toward Rome. While Joey may not be building guns anymore, I feel I can speak for him in saying he will fix anything that's out there that he's already built if it isn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 +1 on Try changing the grip for the heck of it. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The step in the slide with the 9mm breechface is more than likely the problem as has already been mentioned by others in this thread. As the round slides down the breechface during extraction and ejection the rim of the case will get to that step and take the tension off the extractor causing the problem you describe. We had countless problems like this with the STI slides with the 9mm breechface and the cure is to either weld up that step and then machine or file back to square or replace the slide with a 38 super slide which is all we use on our 9mm guns now and it has completely eliminated the problem. You will also need a different extractor to use the 38 super slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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