College Financial Aid

[outerlimits]

my daughter was accepted to a very nice private college (won't trash them here) that'll run almost $50K a year. because i work for a living and am doing well, they cough up little towards the bottom line. if i was not working, hadn't owned a home, had no retirement plan and basically watched TV all day, the financial aid would be pouring in.

[uscbigdawg]

Hmmm....claim minority status in CA?

I'm kidding. It sucks as I was in the same boat with my folks when I attend the University of Spoiled Children.

Rich

[Viggen]

No offense but what the heck kind of major could possibly be worth $50K per year?

Assume $200-$250K for the 4-5 years, and no extra pizza, what degree could possibly be worth anything close to that kind of money tossed downrange?

[uscbigdawg]

$50k/year is not a lot of money for a private school.

Rich

[Michael Carlin]

I personally hate the whole system. What passes for education in both the Ivy League schools and at state institutions is in the case of the Liberal Arts a travesty. When I discovered 40 years ago that I was not going to get any real help with school I did not apply to institutions with big price tags.

I attended a state land grant institution, in my 3d year I simply went into the Army. It was 1970, some of you may understand what that entailed.

My eldest, thanks to my father graduated from Boston University. She is a fine actor, but a flaming liberal. Her understanding of how things are is warped by her education. I agree, there is no education that is worth $250 to 300 THOUSAND $!

Perhaps the sciences, and medicine are an exception.

It is patently obvious to me that the agenda at the institutions of higher learning is this country is not about teaching people to explore through argument the truth. There is no true debate going on in any of these institutions.

Where is the discussion of the merits of a preferential program for minorities? Affirmation action is a program that discriminates against the majority in the name of achieving balance.

Where was and is the discussion of the Second Amendment? It was presented for years, in both undergraduate and graduate programs as moot. Rendered so complete by fact of stare decisis in Miller. When in fact, the Heller decision clearly indicates that there was indeed viability to the point of view that Miller was not determinative.

The saddest part of this is the lack of civility to any opposition to the liberal agenda. Conservatives are routinely shouted down and abused. The fact is that the truth is so powerful that they dare not debate it.

The intolerance, lack of discernment, and failure to teach students to think not what to think is an abject testimony to your point. It is not worth 50K a year!

Edited January 6, 2009 by Michael Carlin

[betterment]

What annoys me is that a parents income can still affect a students FA even when the relationship is sour. I know too many "kids" who have derailed motivation for school because the parents don't want their kids to know about income (or atleast that is what the parents tell them). Something needs to be adjusted.

None the less I hope your daughter is able to make the best of her collegic opportunity.

Phil

[Viggen]

$50k/year is not a lot of money for a private school.

Rich

I am just wondering what possibly major could be worth $50K per yr. Whether it's a lot or not, that's another question.

[PINMAN44]

If she lived on her own and was independent FAFSA would help out tremendously with the tuition.

Oh Viggen... PRE-MED+JOHN HOPKINS= 50k

[rtr]

The primary benefit of a private expensive college (btw $50k/year isn't super high) is that having a degree from that institution opens up a world of networking opportunities that can be of tremendous benefit in finding jobs in certain industries.

With that said one can certainly be just as successful if they attend a less expensive institution, or even don't attend college.

[al503]

My brother was paying $60K/year for dental school. He graduated in '01. It was worth it though as he's planning on retiring in about 10-12 years.

[chemepharmd]

To me, judging the value of a degree should be based on the expected salary/benefits when you complete it. Any doctor or other professional expecting to make $250k+ per year upon finishing is probably getting his money's worth. Anyone not sure if they'll make a quarter of that would be better off finding a less expensive university.

[Jim Norman]

Sadly we have as a society decided that everyone needs to go to college. NOT TRUE. We NEED Plumbers, Stone masons, carpenters, cabinet makers auto mechanics etc. Next time you have a major mechanical failure (electrical, plumbing, structural) call a Liberal Arts Major, a Doctor, a Physician etc.

SAE Mechanics, over $100k yr. Plumbers, Carpenters, similar if Union, or Self employed and truly a Journeyman, not the union label, but the real thing.

Jim

[Mike Schramm]

If she lived on her own and was independent FAFSA would help out tremendously with the tuition.

Oh Viggen... PRE-MED+JOHN HOPKINS= 50k

My daughter was out on her own for more than a year after High School. When she decided to go back to school (at 20) our salaries were still considered. We were told that our salaries would be considered until she turns 24.

As someone else said, even if the parents are not talking to the child the kid still has to go to the parents and get their info.

[uscbigdawg]

$50k/year is not a lot of money for a private school.

Rich

I am just wondering what possibly major could be worth $50K per yr. Whether it's a lot or not, that's another question.

USC in 1992-1997 it was about $35-45k/year regardless of your major. If you were engineering, the sciences, art or architecture it's even more since you have supplies to buy.

As for education (or lack there of) in the schools, my feeling of higher education is this. No university really teaches you anything that you can't learn on your own. But that it is not the point of higher education. Yes there is an exposure and information clarification, but TO ME the point of higher education is to teach you how to resolve an issue, solve a problem and in a nut shell how to think.

What an INDIVIDUAL chooses to do with that is completely on them and not the school's. If we start looking for someone else to blame and not accept that it is an individual's personal decision to think how they do on an issue then we are no better than those that we oppose on issues close to us (see 2nd Amendment). Even in the face of our enemy, personal accountability applies to us and how we view and accept them as much as it does to them.

Rich

Edited January 6, 2009 by uscbigdawg

[bofe954]

I started a 529 plan for my daughter as soon as I got her social security number...The public university here is 10K a year. When I graduated 10 years ago from a slightly cheaper public state U it was $2500 a year. I figured the 529 was basically like a retirement plan for me since if I don't have enough put away for her to go to school, I'll never be able to retire.

[G-ManBart]

Yeah, it doesn't seem to make sense. $50K isn't even close to being considered expensive these days, but it still is a lot of money. It's sad, but if someone doesn't want to learn a trade they're pretty much going to need a degree if they don't want to work retail.

There is a process where students can document the lack of a financial relationship with their parents. I do recall hearing it was a PITA, but that it can be done.

How many years does it take for that SAE mechanic or union plumber/carpenter to get to $100K? It usually takes those folks a number of years to worth their way up to that level of income and that's where the big difference can often be found...note I said usually, not always.

My job required a degree and in 5 years you're making $100K+. I took a pay cut to start out but most of the folks with me in training actually had gotten a raise, with the exception of the attorneys and accountants.

[Ron Ankeny]

Then there is good old Wyoming. We have been rolling in the dough with energy exploration and the state has set up the Hathaway Scholarship, basically a full ride for every high school student in the state if they can wake up in the morning and drag their butts to school. The scholarship can be used at the University of Wyoming or any junior college. Without going into a lot of detail, the idea of a full ride for every kid in the state sounds great on paper, but talk about a boatload of problems.

As far as the mechanisms that are put in place regarding eligibility for financial aide, I don't know how things could ever be equitable.

[p99shooter]

I know your pain. I won the Bausch and Lomb science award in high school, which comes with a partial scholarship to the University of Rochester. I grew up in PA, so we couldn't qualify for much aid because I was out of state. For the in-state schools, my Dad made "too much" money to qualify for a lot of aid, but not enough to actually pay for college. I went to a small no-name private school with some Pell grants and loans, and paid my own way.

Sucks being in the middle sometimes. Good luck.

[uscbigdawg]

G-Man,

Yep...there's a way. My roommate my sophomore year did that. His folks are super rich, but he told his parents that he was going to make his own way (like his Dad did). It took him most of the fall semester to get the paperwork done.

Rich

[Rob Boudrie]

Not only that, but the tuition is inflated so that there will be money available for those who are "deserving". It's a huge scam, and when you're done, they expect you to donate.

When I was in college there were two summer programs for high school students - a tuition based one for suburban kids, and a different one for minorities. Students attending the later were given special assistance with financial aid if they applied to the college, and were paid for attending the summer program (!!!!) to "compensate them for the loss of money from their summer job".

[frenchwrench]

Gotta love FASFA for NOT accounting for what you pay out of your total income. Why don't High schools have more training for the kids that do not want to go to college? The Trades are still as needed as ever and pay a living wage. Seems like it's college or MC Donalds, no middle ground.

[Ron Ankeny]

Why don't High schools have more training for the kids that do not want to go to college? The Trades are still as needed as ever and pay a living wage.

That's a good question. Good grief, I teach vocational classes in the middle of gas patch Wyoming and it seems like the academic snobs just don't understand. What can one expect when you consider the vast majority of school administrators went to K-12, then right into college, then right back into the educational system without ever really working for a living. Heck, many admistrators won't even associate with the working class folks.

Oh, and the trades in some states pay more than a living wage. I have three former students that graduated last year and make more working 7 on and 7 off than our superintendent of schools drags down. It's not uncommon for high school graduates to gross 80k-100k per year, but oh no, we want something better for those kids...even if the kid doesn't want to pursue higher education.