SA Friday Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Jim Norman's Poll on USPSA 'needs a home' thread got me thinking about what a range facility would need to run a nationals. What would it take at a minimum? What would be ideal? What support structure would need to be in place around the range? What external factors would come into play? Ya, I know, more than one question... What got me thinking real hard about it was that the Fredricksburg, VA range held a Nationals, and I've been there quite a few times for local club matches. They're fairly limited in bays (7 or 8) and there are how many stages at a Nationals? 14...16...24? Obviously, I've never shot a Nationals before, but have assisted in a few Level II matches and a Level III match. Even with just 10-12 stages over a couple of days, it can be pretty labor intensive. The planning was pretty intense too. All of these factors are affected by the facilities, so that led to the above questions for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 After shooting the open nationals this year, I'd say the number one thing they need is water drainage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I believe the Nationals has gotten a bit bigger since the last time Fredericksburg hosted the match... I'd say at this point a range would need to have enough berm space to hold 18 stages, minimum, plus a chrono. They'd need plenty of parking, space for vendors, shelters on the bays (temporary or permanent), a method to get food on site, a location for stats... Hotels within reasonable difference would be a good thing, as would enough restaurants and the like to support 600 folks for a weekend. Most importantly, the location would need a staff of folks willing to liaison with HQ and work their tails off to make the match happen If they were willing/able to do it, I believe the fine folks at South River Gun Club in Atlanta (location of A6 the past few years) could actually pull off a Nationals, especially if they had free run of the whole facility (minus clays fields). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Your list is pretty good. If you add "within reasonable driving distance of a good quantity of shooters", "near a hub (or at least significant) airport", and "has something to do, both for the shooter when not shooting, and for the family", it gets closer. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I believe the Nationals has gotten a bit bigger since the last time Fredericksburg hosted the match... I'd say at this point a range would need to have enough berm space to hold 18 stages, minimum, plus a chrono. They'd need plenty of parking, space for vendors, shelters on the bays (temporary or permanent), a method to get food on site, a location for stats... Hotels within reasonable difference would be a good thing, as would enough restaurants and the like to support 600 folks for a weekend. Most importantly, the location would need a staff of folks willing to liaison with HQ and work their tails off to make the match happen That pretty much sums it up; and as mentioned close to an airport is a bonus. The Nationals will surely bring good business for the locals so good publicity will also help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 South River is pretty close to an airport, hotels, and plenty of restaurants. Might be a valid location. I have never been to a Nationals event so I don't know how big they are, but I thought I read somewhere that the Area 6 match was the largest Area match. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 but I thought I read somewhere that the Area 6 match was the largest Area match. Is that correct? Largest in what sense? Number of stages? In that sense, it was the largest of the three Area matches I shot this year (1, 2, 6). In terms of number of competitors, I don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I was meaning in means of competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 A2 was the largest this year in number of competitors, w/ A6 in 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) For 2008 : Area 1 300 Area 2 355 Area 3 222 Area 4 120 Area 5 283 Area 6 335 Area 7 204 Area 8 311 ETA: LPR & O-L-10 Nats 08 had 19 Stages, SS had 13 Edited December 16, 2008 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Dave was quoted earlier, but I think the most important part was left out (of quoting him). If they were willing/able to do it, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 So either of those venues ought to be large enough to do a Nationals level event right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 So either of those venues ought to be large enough to do a Nationals level event right? If they had the whole run of the Rio Salado facility... maybe. You get into the number of stages, at that point (A2 had 11). A6 had 12 - but a couple of bays could be configured to hold 2, I think, and if you could use the old bullseye range for a standards, and the rifle range for one or two, you'd have plenty of space, I think... But, Kyle's dead on about the important part of what I said Everything else is a moot point absent that... I was just thinking of other facilities I'd been to recently that had the space.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 A2 did 11 stages & Chrono in 2.5 Days. The stages all stay up for the entire time. Adding a day could theoretically add 4-5 stages but they do not have the bays at Rio. You pretty much need 18 or so non-submersible bays... Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Not to drift, but.... I find it amazing that "family locations/activities" are important. Unintended drift mode off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Not to drift, but....I find it amazing that "family locations/activities" are important. Unintended drift mode off Dude, driving to Nationals and back turns a 3-4 day match into 7-8 days. Not spending that much time away from my spouse --- simply not selfish enough. Now Carol's incredibly good-natured, but if there's something to do in the vicinity of Nationals that makes the trip more enjoyable for her, which in turn means I get to shoot Nationals again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Not to drift, but....I find it amazing that "family locations/activities" are important. Unintended drift mode off Dude, driving to Nationals and back turns a 3-4 day match into 7-8 days. Not spending that much time away from my spouse --- simply not selfish enough. Now Carol's incredibly good-natured, but if there's something to do in the vicinity of Nationals that makes the trip more enjoyable for her, which in turn means I get to shoot Nationals again..... Understood, I figured that many would either prefer to stay home or watch the match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 At one point in time Universal Shooting Academy (Frank Garcia's range) was in communication with HQ about getting a Nationals event and HQ had specifications that were required to be considered as a site. I know that he complied with their requirements but, as far as I know, it never went any farther than that. I believe that the Nationals should move around to give more folks access to the event, and I would love to see a "Down South" Nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 South River and Rio Salado are a bit small for a National event. It would probably also be an issue to shut them down for 7-10 days to build the stages, shoot the match and teardown. If it was simply a matter of fitting stages in and parking a lot of ranges could do it. Unfortuately the biggest issue is the people on the ground willing to do it. Finding a qualified MD and RM, plus set up and teardown crews is going to be an issue. A lot of times the MD or RM aren't local and that can cause issues as well. There needs to be a point person nearby that can coordinate setup, porta potties, food etc. If you put Nationals in a fixed location you're going to be taxing one group heavily. The National office does not do much in the way of support and seem to be more of a hindrance than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I would think that, from a shooting perspective, Universal Shooing Academy would work great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 How many shooters attend a national event? How many shot Open? How many shot Lim 10? etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) How many shooters attend a national event?How many shot Open? How many shot Lim 10? etc. 2008 LPR 397 OL10 383 SS 276 (BTW: all questions like this can be answered by the Major Match Results page on www.uspsa.org) Edited December 16, 2008 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 South River and Rio Salado are a bit small for a National event. It would probably also be an issue to shut them down for 7-10 days to build the stages, shoot the match and teardown. If it was simply a matter of fitting stages in and parking a lot of ranges could do it. Area 6: Limited = 118 Limited 10 = 34 Production = 62 Open = 91 Single Stack = 25 Revolver = 5 ______________ 335 shooters total The Open/Lim10 Nats had 383 shooters. The Limited/Production/Revolver Nats had 395 shooters. There's only 60 shooters difference and over 3 days that would only be 20 more shooters per day. Make the match 14 stages and your other 20 shooters now have a home. Two more squads in two more stages. I have never been to Rio, but my wife has. The only problem I see with setting up 12 stages at South River and hosting the Nats there is the guys that shoot multiple Divisions would be shooting the same COF twice and might have somewhat of an advantage over those that only shoot 1 Nationals Division. Now talking Cindy/Bill and crew into hosting a Nationals event at South River might be a totally different hurdle. With the fluidity that they have been running Area 6 it might not be that big of an issue for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Yeah, I forgot about the SS Nats. That bumps the number up quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) Yeah, I forgot about the SS Nats. That bumps the number up quite a bit. SS is separate, it is going to be held at PASA Edited December 16, 2008 by zhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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