kimel Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hi Everyone, I have been struggling with an odd weak hand problem now for a couple months trying this and that with no real success. When shooting weak hand I shoot nice tight groups but they are all about 4 inches to the right (from 10 yards). I have tried both eyes open, right eye only, left eye only (I have equal dominance in both eyes so can switch easily). I have tried straight up, canted right, even canted left. Body square to the target, body turned toward target, body turned away from the target. Thumb on thumb safety, thumb off thumb safety. Finger pad on trigger, finger joint on trigger. Elbow locked, elbow unlocked, elbow bent. Each of these produces exactly the same results. This occurs in both rapid fire and slow fire. In slow fire I have watched the sights and they do not pull to the right during the trigger pull. In matches I have to remind myself during weak hand to aim left...oh brother is this annoying the heck out of me. Strong hand only is just fine. Anyone have any clue? Cheers! Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 In slow fire I have watched the sights and they do not pull to the right during the trigger pull.Cheers! Kevin Four inches to the right at ten yards is a lot. Things like grip tension, tilting the gun, and stance can make small differences in point of impact but not that much. Think about your statement, the answer to you problem may be in there. If the gun is shooting to the right the sights are definitely going to the right for at least long enough for the shot to go. The gun is pretty much going to shoot where the sights are every time. If you're not seeing the sights go to the right then you might have some kind of vision problem but more likely is that you are blinking or you're letting your focus leave the sight. By not seeing the sight go to the right you're not getting the input you need to correct the problem. Your trigger finger may be pulling the gun over as you break the shot but until you see the sight go to the right you're not going to know it. Hope this helps some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwalker Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 That's why they call it the weak hand... It may have something to do with the trigger finger not pulling straight backwards or the other fingers clenching when you do pull the trigger finger. I think that getting independent movement from the trigger finger is more difficult on the weak hand. I notice that with my right hand (strong hand), I can easily get my index finger to move independently of the other fingers, even when those fingers are gripping a gun. But, with my left hand, any movement in the index finger causes a movement, albeit a small movement, in the other fingers. Just sitting here at my desk, I can see this effect. If it is the same with you, you might want to start doing some exercises to improve it. For the last 3 months, I have been trying some hand-grip exercises, where I squeeze a hand-exerciser with the palm and three fingers and then concentrate on smoothly moving the index finger. I think that it is helping. Of course, the other thing is to increase the amount of range practice time with your weak hand. If you think about, we have all shot tens ot thousands of rounds with the strong hand but only a tiny fraction of that with the weak hand. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 In slow fire I have watched the sights and they do not pull to the right during the trigger pull. ...but, I'll bet the sights go right over after the trigger breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Had the same problem when I switched from a revolver to an auto for NRA Action Stock gun. As previously stated it was grip and trigger control for me. My coach says it is nearly always worse with autos as you can see it happening easier with a revolver and correct as you take up. Took about six months of real hard practice. First start with dry fire at least three times a week specifically for weak hand, no less than fifteen minutes for each session. Full drill, draw sight picture and fire, repeat, repeat, repeat. Always hold handgun upright, no canting at all. Remember your follow through, Ross is on the right track about focus, you must see the sights after the shot has broken and all the way back to ready again. No blinking, no fuzzyness. The best way ( I found ) to get the scores you want to begin with is, to aim left, as you practice and get better you will aim less left and finally you aim centre. Occaisionally as you transition from off aiming you will get rounds go to point of aim. This is when you actually start doing it properly. This system is far from perfect but it worked for me. Good luck and try hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Kevin, Trigger control is my nemesis, and since we don't shoot as much with the weak hand, trigger control is that much more of a problem. Pushing the trigger can be a real possibility. This is an area dry firing can help in training your finger to the trigger and avoid pushing. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Get those little targets and paste them to your walls. Watch what your front sight is doing during dry-fire and do something to keep it from doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillL223 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 You might try only touching the edge of the trigger with your trigger finger. This helped me when shooting strong hand only. My "strong" hand is actually weaker then my "weak" hand and I found that squeezing a tennis ball at red lights has helped equalize my grip strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 kimel, I can pretty much guarantee that you are pushing the gun to the right exactly as you are pulling the trigger. And if your face/eyes are not totally calm, relaxed, and seeing at this instant, you won't see it. It just happens too fast. Commit to "fixing the problem." Dedicate some time each practice session to shooting some weak-hand, slow-fire groups at 20 yards. After you "set up" or establish sight alignment/picture, try this - shift or focus 100% of your attention to the feeling of your grip in your weak hand, but NOT INCLUDING YOUR TRIGGER FINGER. Focus all your attention in your hand, forgetting about sight alignment or your trigger finger, with the intention of just "feeling it very _still_." After familiarizing yourself with this feeling for a few seconds, "tell yourself" to - fire the shot without disturbing this feeling (of stillness). Let me know if this helps - or if you see or feel something you haven't yet noticed. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 Thanks everyone! This place is soooooo cool! I think Peter is really on to something with the movement of the other fingers when the weak hand trigger finger is moving. I was playing around with this today at work and noticed that my grip on a bean bag does indeed change as I mimick pulling the trigger weak hand but there isn't anything like this strong hand. When the wife gets home I am going to have her watch me and see if things aren't diving off to the right just as the trigger breaks. Going to add a lot more weak hand to the dry-fire stuff starting tonight and a good chunk of live-fire practice will be on weak hand group shooting. This particular problem has GOT to go away! Cheers! Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I think Brian got it. I do the same thing. The dumb part of my brain wants to work against the gun jolting left when it fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I had a similar problem. It took about a month of weak hand practicing to fix it. Now I have the same point of aim with either hand. I shot a lot of groups and plates WHO at 20 to 25 yds. Now I have started shooting around barricades WHO when it's easier than leaning and reaching freestyle. I also started with wall targets like Tdean suggested and it has really helped with transitions. And the speed has really improved. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Kimel, I'll take the role of odd-man out here to suggest that what you are experiencing is pure physics. I observed that when I sighted a handgun for 2-handed shooting it would have impact points on the left for RH only and on the right for LH only. About the same time I read an article suggesting that this was caused by the different weight and tension distribution on the gun delivering different recoil characteristics and hence affecting the point of impact (the recoil effect commences prior the the projectile exiting the barrel). However, what Brian suggests as the problem is probably magnifying the result. Remember, the degree of mis-alignment is very small and your wife is not likely to see things "diving" to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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