How to convince myself to go faster?

[Supermoto]

One aspect that I feel that has helped me was the difference between seeing and confirming. I try to break the shot when I see the sights on the target, not waiting until I confirm the sights on the target. If your a thinking about your sights being on target, then you are waiting to long to break the shot

[j1b]

This is a killer topic, and great discussion.

Duane, I'm more in line with you on most of this.

So here's the deal (for me). The day I gave up thinking there was a correlation between speed and accuracy is the day that things really did start making sense. While we believe they are related, and while every sign that we see indicates they are related, realize that they are in fact not related. The goal is to be fast and accurate. Not fast or accurate.

In the spirit of Duane's post, you gotta be able to hit the targets. I've contended this for years, so please bear with me. When any of us set up a drill, if we don't know with 100% certainty that given unlimited time we could shoot all A's - easily - then there is a root cause issue. Gotta fix that. You do in fact have to know how to shoot in order to play the game.

So then let's look at speed. The base of this thread. How do you do it? Flex complimented me on a path I took some time ago so I'm going to try it here. And I want to approach this as a look what's possible. In the interest of saving time and ammo - let's quickly do a dry fire drill. Put some big ass targets out in front of you. Three of them. Now, step 3 steps back - yep 3 yards. Now, dress out and get the gear ready. Finally, put on a blind fold and do two shots each. Try it out and let me know how confident you are in what is happening. At 9 feet non-the-less. I bet not that great.

My belief is that our vision enables us. It allows us to accomplish the goal. Now, to jake's point, this has got to be tested. It isn't about how fast you can comfortably see, it's about how fast you can in fact see. And that requires being uncomfortable.

The other component in all of this is practice. Yes - you must practice. None of this matters if all you'll do is test in matches. You should practice, and you should practice different times with different goals. So, in some circumstances you should shoot beyond your vision, and limit. You should see what that's like. You should also know what it's like to drill A's all day long. That way you can make a decision about the path you want to take (notice speed isn't mentioned) and go with it.

Great thread.

J

[benos]

Nice add Jack.

Yes, whenever I hear or read "speed or accuracy," I change the "or" to "and."

And like with roadracing, you must push your comfort zone or you'll never know how fast you can go (and get good hits).

This may or may not relate, but it came to mind when reading the comfort zone part... Once I spent an afternoon practicing on 75 - 100 yard IPSC targets, with a rifle. Then I set up some some arrays at 15 - 25 yards, and practiced with my pistol a bit. Man, did those pistol targets suddenly seem extraordinarily easy to shoot good points on.

be

[Powder Finger]

Let me put it this way: There has never been a champion racer that hasn't crashed into the wall a couple of times in his career. You can't learn to accurately control your shots at speed, unless you crash and burn once or twice. Striving to be as technically accurate as possible during the crash is what makes you better.

To this statement I remember Rob telling Jack at a match after something bad happening:

"You can't make a omlette without breaking a few eggs"

[j1b]

Ran out of eggs, without a good omelete!!!!

Hate it when that happens!!!!

[Powder Finger]

I thinks no good omelete because Arkansas don't have good chili peppers to add like Arizona has!?!?

[Flexmoney]

Rocky Balboa ate his eggs raw. (thus, eliminating wasted steps)

[2MoreChains]

Can I join this thread? This is something that I've been puzzling over since I shot my first match in Sept. My scores from subsequent matches are usually pretty close to the max points per stage, but my slow times are ranking me in the middle of the pack once hit factors were calculated. So yeah, I quickly realized that accuracy and speed were the hallmarks for doing well in this game. (DVC, eh?)

But as a novice to USPSA (still trying to get classified) I'm afraid (maybe the wrong word) of picking up bad habits if I sacrifice too much accuracy for speed. I know there is a break point between speed and points, but call it a conceit because game or not, I want to hit what I aim at. As has been noted above, we first have to hit the target. No doubt this is doubly true when shooting steel, because hitting the plate the first time has got to be less time than taking two shots if I miss on the first. I took a class a long time ago where the instructor would look at my target after a string, and tell me to speed up or slow down, based on my accuracy. If I had nice tight groups, he told me I should be shooting faster. If my groups were loose, he'd say slow down. That must have made an impression on me, since I find myself still adhering to his teachings.

So after shooting 5 matches, my competitive urges are whispering in my ear to speed up. But I've noticed that each time I try to speed up my shooting, my scores really suffer, and I realize I'm not ready for that type of acceleration. After talking to Aristotle over on another forum, I'm working on trying to be fast and efficient in my movement, and let my budding shooting speed mature on its own over time. With each COF I shoot, I can look back in my minds eye and make note of how I wasted effort (and time) in a number of areas. Simple things like footwork, reloads (I'm in SS Div, so I do a LOT of reloading), movement between arrays, or even the sequence of how I approach the arrays. I'm trying to pay attention for self-critique (I've re-read that chapter in BE's book a couple of times now). It's hard to tell with all the COF's being different, but I think my times over the last two matches are coming down. I did have to reshoot one COF a couple of matches ago because the timer malfunctioned, and dropped 2 secs through being more efficient in my movement (can I reshoot all the other's please?).

I don't have a timer, but think I can probably shave 20-30% off my time for each COF by getting more efficient in the non-shooting skills, so am going to work on that, and try to fight the urge to rush my shots (and hit Deltas or no-shoots, or hard targets). I'm into pre-visualization (learned to do it in other sports), and try to do a walk through of each COF in my mind before I shoot, but then there's the part where my body won't do what my brain tells it to do!

Am I going down the right path here?

Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving. Don't eat too much (it makes bending over that much harder to do...)

[boz1911]

Great thread. I would like to add that for the first time I got to see some video of me shooting the Georgia State match. Man, what an eyeopener!! I realized where I was leaving a lot of time on the table. Primarily, leaving one position and getting to the next. I have learned somewhat how to be as efficient as possible with my movements, however the acceleration was horrible. I now incorporate short accel bursts in my dryfire routine. Hopefully this will shave some tenths.

On that note, I have a question? In my three years of shooting I have had fairly steady improvement, slow but steady. I have noticed a few shooters that appear to be at exactly the same skill level now as when I started. Is there a limit to one's improvement based on natural abilities?? In other words, even with dryfire, livefire, and match experience, is one with "B" class natural ability going to always be a "B" class shooter??

[Dan Burwell]

On that note, I have a question? In my three years of shooting I have had fairly steady improvement, slow but steady. I have noticed a few shooters that appear to be at exactly the same skill level now as when I started. Is there a limit to one's improvement based on natural abilities?? In other words, even with dryfire, livefire, and match experience, is one with "B" class natural ability going to always be a "B" class shooter??

Maybe we could get a mod to split this topic out as I think it could be a good one.

I personally think everyone has a limit, but I doubt most ever come close to reaching it. I think most of those whom you are refering to are the guys that may shoot a good many matches but never practice.

I see this time and time again on this forum and others guys usually starts with I have been shooting for a while am a solid B class shooter but I need help with.... going faster, getting better movement, getting better hits but, they only shoot matches. If they do practice they only dry fire practice the basics.

I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure the reason for one's stagnation, is the unwillingness to progress. Not to be confused with one's desire to progress.

I guess I speak this from experience, I have shot competitivly local IDPA matches (that was all we had) for maybe 5 years, I was stuck in expert. Of course I was only shooting matches never practiced. I went to my first state match and imediatly got bumbed to master. I had never been able to shoot any master time classifiers, so I was pretty shocked when this happened. I had already signed up for several big matches including nationals, so I figured I had better start working at it. I actually started practicing. This year I started shooting USPSA went from a c class shooter on my first car in the spring to a A class with this most recent, I also finished 5th place(SSP master) at IDPA nationals. This from a guy that a year earlier couldn't even shoot a master IDPA classifier. Why did it happen after I had already been shooting for 5 years before this, I became willing to progress. I put in the work necessary, and it paid off.

So when I hear people ask if they reach a plateau, my answer is I doubt most are close, they may think they are, but until they put in the work they will never know.

[bkeeler]

I did have to reshoot one COF a couple of matches ago because the timer malfunctioned, and dropped 2 secs through being more efficient in my movement (can I reshoot all the other's please?).

Or was it because on the reshoot you knew exactly where each target was and you did not have to think about it?

On the reshoot you knew what you needed to do when the buzzer went off you just pushed the play button and let it happen with out thought.

You must shoot at your current natural speed in matches and push hard in practice to increase your natural speed.

BK

[2MoreChains]

Or was it because on the reshoot you knew exactly where each target was and you did not have to think about it?

On the reshoot you knew what you needed to do when the buzzer went off you just pushed the play button and let it happen with out thought.

You must shoot at your current natural speed in matches and push hard in practice to increase your natural speed.

BK

Probably a bit of both... having shot it once, I knew how to move through the COF, and was able to flow with it (yeah, press PLAY button. Good one!) and my movement was probably more efficient w/ less wasted movement.

On another note, the other day I watched a shooter do a beautiful pirouette when she shifted from one array to another that was almost 180 degrees on the other side of the course. Smooth, good footwork, and great to watch.

Thx for the advice on natural shooting speed. I'll do that (or try to).

[JThompson]

My problem was never how to convince myself to speed up, but how to convince myself to slow down to my current skill set.

[rvb]

On that note, I have a question? In my three years of shooting I have had fairly steady improvement, slow but steady. I have noticed a few shooters that appear to be at exactly the same skill level now as when I started. Is there a limit to one's improvement based on natural abilities?? In other words, even with dryfire, livefire, and match experience, is one with "B" class natural ability going to always be a "B" class shooter??

My answer is "NO," with some exception for actual physical ailments/limitations.

Mostly the limit is in people's minds. The first step to improving is BELIEVING you CAN. When someone says "I'll never make A class," my first thought it, "yup, you're right."

Most people stagnate for a couple of reasons.... 1) A passing interest in improving. For these people it truly is all about getting out of the house on a weekend morning and seeing friends while playing with guns. Great. I sincerely think there is nothing wrong with this. Some days that's all I want out of it, too. 2) Going through the motions during their practice/training w/o really trying to learn or experience something new every time. I've known several people who talk about dryfiring hours per day and burning tens of thousands of rounds per year. Heck, I was once one of them. But always running the same drills at the same pace with the only goal to run that same tired drill slightly faster on the clock won't help you when you should be trying new things in new ways and be open to different experiences. In other words it's the quality of the practice. You can't experience new things while doing the same old things.

Believing you can or will perform at the next class leads to pushing yourself in your training. Once you experience a higher level of shooting at a match even once you suddenly want to experience it every time you shoot. The the trick is to let it happen and not "try" to make it happen... push yourself in your practices but on match day shoot A's and learn to trust your speed will be there based on your current shooting ability.

-rvb

Edited November 27, 2008 by rvb

[SRT Driver]

Good thread.

One element that I've noticed a lot in threads like this is someone who is trying to learn a concept asks a simple question and receives an answer on a level that they may not understand. This reply is what I thought about to make progress early.

For example, how do I shoot faster. They receive an answer like "eliminate wasted movement, be more efficient" or "see more." These answers may make sense to a shooter of similar ability but someone who has just started says "Huh? what to they mean, how do I do that."

For the effeciency question, if you don't have to take extra steps..don't. The shortest distance between points is a straight line. Sounds simple and it works. You just have to apply it to where you are at skill level wise eg do what you can..make gradual improvement. Think about it at the next match or practice session and try it.

For shooting faster (this was what I had the most trouble with) Give up the perfect sight picture. Sight post perfectly centered and level with the rear. (I know I'll get flak for this but..) Think of it as an acceptable sight picture.. it does not have to be perfect only what you need to get a good hit. You have to see the sight in relation to the rear but you need less - closer. You need more farther away. "Seeing more" is ambiguous. Seeing what? Try it and see what you need to see in practice.

And keep both eyes open. I have a more difficult time calling shots with one closed.

Another area that is related is switching gears (trigger speed). Many shooters shoot at one speed. Learn to shift gears. I do not care what anyone says..you cannot get 2 Alpha's at 50 yards shooting .11 splits without luck but you can at 5 yards without too much effort.

Also, know what a point is worth. Too many shooters see that they shot a Charlie and shoot another. If you can do it fast (within .2 or so depending on the stage) OK but if not you are costing yourself too much time. So don't make up shots unless you know the last one was a bad one. If you have to look and think..it's too late.

This sport is not about luck. It is about knowing what you are capable of and exploiting it. So learn what you are currently capable of and work to improve in practice. Practice where you need to, what you are poor at but not at the expense of what you do well.